Tommy Robinson

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Nuriyah Khan is a prominent ex-Muslim and women's rights campaigner known for her fearless advocacy and outspoken views. Born into a conservative Muslim family, she faced numerous challenges when she decided to leave Islam, a decision that propelled her into the spotlight. Nuriyah leverages her personal experiences to highlight issues of gender inequality, forced marriage, and honour-based violence within Islamic communities. Through social media, public speaking engagements, and her writings, she has become a powerful voice for women's rights, championing freedom, education, and empowerment for women globally. Her work continues to inspire and support countless individuals seeking equality and justice.

[00:00:11] Nuriyah Khan:

My dad and my brother would go for Friday prayer, and there would be announcements for beheadings and amputations   after the prayer every Friday.   You weren't saved in Britain. You were saved by going Saudi. You were saved by going Saudi. How ironic is that? I remember my grandfather said to me, if I was your father, I would never let you do what your dad has just allowed you to do. He was insanely   radicalized while he was here, like my mom, obviously I wasn't born, but my mom was telling me that he wouldn't even like look her in the eye when he would talk to her. He'd like look down. You got your passport in your hand? I was like, yeah. He's like, do not, do not. Just just put your put the foot put your foot down and and make your way to the airport where these stupid charges don't apply.  

[00:00:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

In in in a real world that we're in,   you are risking your life. Yeah.  

[00:00:56] Nuriyah Khan:

It's disgustingly oppressive towards women and it's so vague that it will allow for it's all encompassing. Like it's a catchall for women. You are you're oppressed, there's no way out,   And all of these things like what was put on me is justified very much so by the guy himself.  

[00:01:15] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Information covered up, censorship,   corruption, the mainstream media have proven itself   to be untrustworthy.   I'm here to give a platform for debate, for truth,   for open discussion.   I'm introducing you to my podcast,   silenced with Tommy Robinson.   The problem is the Islamic way. Far right, glamophobic act Since then, it's been organized protests across the country. London, Manchester, Leeds. Even in their 1,000 amount of drugs was used. There is no such thing in this country as I must be Free, Tommy Robertson.  

[00:02:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Welcome to my latest edition of my podcast, Silence, where I'm joined with a guest who I believe is brave and courageous   and risking their life, which we'll get onto. That is Narrea. So, Narrea, thank you for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. I've seen your   not your go to, but you're described as ex Muslim commentator. Mhmm.   So I'd like to just start at I I wanna get onto the whole Islam thing, your upbringing in Islam, but find out more about you first, if that's alright.  

[00:02:29] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. Sure. So,   I'm 3rd generation British well, I was a British a 3rd generation British Muslim.   So I was born and brought up in London,   left here when I was 9.   But I was,   brought up in a kind of conservative   to liberal, I guess, Sunni Muslim household. Okay.   So, yeah. I did primary schooling here, did religious education, RE as part of that,   was very much like loving Islam,   repping it to the school and things like that.   And, yeah, my my granddad was, an imam of the local mosque as well. So he held the key. Okay. And he would open the mosque for the earliest,   morning prayer.  

And there'd be, like, Quran recital competitions and all of these things around the mosque that I would be heavily involved in.   And I'd go to Quran classes every day as well after school. Again, a lot of indoctrination there. I started to wear the hijab at 9 years old based on what my Quran teacher told me.  

[00:03:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And why at 9 years old? Why would your Quran teacher not why at not 8 and why at 9?  

[00:03:32] Nuriyah Khan:

There's a, 9 is a special age for,   I guess a girl in Islam and it's when things really like start to get serious and kick off. You're meant to take your, like, conservatism,   modesty, all of these things very seriously.   And obviously it alludes to, I think anyway,   something very basic in the hadith, which is prophet Muhammad's   consummation  

[00:03:54] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

of his marriage to Aisha, his child. Right? You'd say it was because at that point you were coming from a child to a woman in their view. In their view. Yes. Islamically. Islamically   8 year a child. When you get to 9, you develop them into a woman at 9.   And, that's why you had to wear the hijab. Yeah. If that's an age where  

[00:04:12] Nuriyah Khan:

a alleged prophet can consummate a marriage with somebody then, yeah. The rest of the Muslims should take that age as seriously.  

[00:04:18] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And where where were your family from? Originally from Pakistan. Whereabouts in Pakistan?  

[00:04:23] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Lahore. Lahore. Okay. Yeah.  

[00:04:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Okay. And  

[00:04:27] Nuriyah Khan:

you're growing up, you said did you say until 9? Yes. And then you went somewhere else? Yeah. So at 9, when I started to wear the hijab and things like that. I I did for a while and then I got interested in sports. So I took the hijab off and then almost immediately we moved to Saudi Arabia. So we relocated,  

[00:04:44] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

for my father's job at the time and yeah. So So you went to Saudi Arabia at 9. Okay. So you was growing up in London at 9. Was you in a total Islamic school or not? No. No. I was in a like local primary school. Nothing special just our local school,  

[00:04:58] Nuriyah Khan:

part of   just all I would do is participate in RE. But no, the the the Islamic education was separate after school. Okay.  

[00:05:05] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And   at 9 years old,   your family have moved to Saudi Arabia. How long did you live in Saudi Arabia?  

[00:05:12] Nuriyah Khan:

Till I was 16. So I grew up like, a large portion of my life I spent in Saudi Arabia Yeah. In the holy land of Islam. Yeah. Totally. I didn't know that. Yeah. No. It it was such an eye opening experience in so many ways. It's shaped who I am in so many ways.  

[00:05:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Why? What what was it like moving from London   to to Saudi Arabia? Funnily enough, incredible.  

[00:05:32] Nuriyah Khan:

Incredible.   For a young child,   I guess I'm speaking also from a perspective where you go as an expat. So you go as a British expat and you're staying in a compound.   This is like basically it's a mini America or a mini international,   I guess community within Saudi Arabia. So the rules of Saudi Arabia don't apply   in that compound. Outside of those walls, you have all of, you know, the the Wahhabi   Saudi Arabia play out in front of you, the call to prayer, the abayas, all of those things. But also, thankfully, because I went to a British international school, it was co ed. So, you know, gender mixing was normal. We had discos. But again, it was like being in a school in England.   But why I say it opened my eyes a lot was because,   again,   how embedded,   like, Islam was in Saudi. Obviously they follow the Wahhabi   Islam. And at the time that I was there, now this has been watered down a lot, but when I was there they had the mudawah, which is the Islamic police,   the religious police. And they would enforce Sharia in daily life. So if my mom was at the supermarket shopping   and she was there with her, like, 2 English friends, They didn't have their head covered and the Mu'Dawah would come and say to them, You're in our country. You need to cover cover your head. And they even rebuked him like once and said, We don't believe in Islam. We're not Muslim. And he said, it doesn't matter. You're in Saudi Arabia. Our rules apply. And then they had to my mom told me they they both put on their head, headscarf and complied.  

So that was the big thing as well. They would stop men who weren't, like, stopping their cars on the side of the road to go and pray at prayer time. These little things of these, like, encroaching onto, you know, daily life. My my dad and my brother would go for Friday prayer and there would be announcements for beheadings and amputations   after the prayer every Friday.   And Riyadh, because we lived in Jaddha, which is still a bit more of a liberal ish city if you can call it that. But Riyadh is intense. So they had this whole square, which is called Chop Chop Square, which is renowned for Chop Chop Square. Yeah. Literally. That's what the expats called it.  

[00:07:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Chop Chop Square. How religious were your mom? Was your mom and dad? Sorry. Because if your grand your granddad's obviously super religious if he's an imammer Yeah. In London. You move away your mom and dad, was there a bit more freedom   through your mom and dad or are they strict?  

[00:07:38] Nuriyah Khan:

So they they were born here and then they obviously grew up here. So they had really like mixed with, I guess, British culture enough to not you know, they don't they don't pray 5 times a day. I would say that they are very much like believers, but they they weren't as, you know, practicing in that sense. Like even when I wore hijab, this never usually happens, but I was discouraged, like, to wear it out. They told me to take it off. For mom and dad? Yeah. They said you're too young. Like, what are you doing? I just wanted to, like, you know, get to heaven or do whatever God told me to do. So I was doing it off my own accord. They were actually happy when I took it off, which obviously is never usually the case. So yeah, you can tell that they're a bit more liberal in their outlooks. But going to Saudi Arabia,   spending time in the Middle East, being surrounded by all these other cultures, they got more and more disassociated from my grandparents here who were quite conservative and religious. So as a as a family, we would travel the world and, you know, they can see how intense Islam can be. So they're rebelling in their own ways as well. And then obviously 9 11 happened, which kind of shook us all to the core as well.  



[00:08:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

When did 9 where where was you and 911 happened? In Saudi Arabia. Okay.  

[00:08:44] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. And it was so bad, Tommy, because like even non Muslim, like neighbors of ours, they would say, Can you teach us? Because obviously we lived in a very heavily American   compound as well, so we were a target after that. We was on high alert because there was a lot of American military there who would live there because we're connected to Raytheon as well. So everyone had to get, like, bulletproof,   Can you teach us the shahada or the gulmar? Just I was like Why'd they want that in case someone come in? In case there was So they could say they're Muslim. Yeah. Yeah. And they put, like, our neighbors were from New Zealand. They actually put, like, a Allah and Mohammed like little decoration outside their house as if, like, terrorists are gonna come and check. But, I mean, it's just indiscriminate when it happens, but that's the level of fear. We started having terrorist drills in school.  

[00:09:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

We we were, yeah, getting ready for the worst. Do you know they do terrorist drills now in school? Do they? They lock the kids under the tables. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Or just my kids' school. So my kids come home and said, dad, like this has happened. We've all had to get under the tables. All the doors have been shut. We've all had to keep quiet.   And I went up to school. They're like, is this because of me? I said, no, that's now national quick like, that's now across the board in the country, they practice lockdowns. Wow. They just call it a lockdown. They won't say it's because of jihad. Yeah. They'll just say it's an emergency lockdown.   Okay. So you you're there. So you're not wear you're not wearing the hijab from 9? No. And then you're living quite freely   in  

[00:10:11] Nuriyah Khan:

Saudi as such. In the school you was in, was it all was it mixed? Yeah. Mixed. Every nationality. And that's actually what kind of was it not shake it didn't shake my face but it made me think that Islam is really like what's up with the Islam that we follow? It's so rigid and intense because I met people from,   various Islamic, like,   different strands of Islam. So there was like Lebanese friends I had who were Druze which is like, it's kind of like   Christianity and Islam. It's kind of infused and you know they're able to like enjoy life a bit more. They're able to drink. It's it's kind of a mishmash of both and I was like, why do we follow the the the one that just sucks the joy out of life? It's so intense. All of this. So this exposure to other cultures and other religions and I met Shias for the first time.   I didn't know that they existed and again in Saudi Arabia,   they   they weren't able to say their last names and come to the same mosques as Sunnis were. They have to live, like, almost underground   because Saudis don't like Shias at all. So even Shia friends of mine in school, they wouldn't openly discuss that they were Shia.  



[00:11:11] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Mad.   Yeah.   And then you how did you do at school? What did you study at school?  

[00:11:17] Nuriyah Khan:

So I did the International Baccalaureate. It was a British school but they do they do the Swiss curriculum. Yep. Which was also weird because you think we're we're doing the British and Swiss school. Speak very well as well. Oh, thank you. Is that from out there?   I guess so. Yeah. I guess it's the the schooling. I guess they did something right. Is there a private school out there? You obviously don't know. It it's it's akin to a private school here, I'd say. Yeah. The standards are quite high for for the rest of schools out there because Saudi Arabia is considered a hardship zone. Nobody in their right mind is gonna wanna go from London to Saudi Arabia. So they make the schools really good. They offer expats a great package. You get 4 flights home, business class back to your country because it's such a hardship zone. Yeah. I mean for a normal person, you don't have cinemas,   you can't access bars, there's there's nothing to do. There's no, like, you know, especially when I was there. Now Saudi Arabia's opening up more and more. But it was very much like you sacrificed all of your pleasures and like your You left to make it worth the the the employees' while Exactly. Incentivized. Great education and things like that. Yeah. All paid for. All paid for.  



[00:12:18] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

How how did you qualify at school? What did you leave with?  

[00:12:21] Nuriyah Khan:

So it's the equivalent of I guess, yeah, like   A's. A's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because the uni I applied to had very high standards to get in. Where was the uni? SOAS. So these Russell groups. What was that? It's in Central London. It's part of University of London. Okay. So you got LSC, UCL, SOAS. I think Queen Mary. They're all Okay. So you left. So and is that when you left you left Saudi Arabia to come back to London when you finished school? No. So,   I went to Dubai for 2 years of my last two years of schooling in Dubai. That's when I and then I came back at 18 for university.  

[00:12:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And when you went to Dubai, what what was that for? Just your last 2 years of schooling, that's where My dad's job moved him to Dubai. You moved him to Dubai? Yeah.   Okay.   How was that breaking up with the friend I guess if you've got all your friends at 16, you've been in the school for years,  

[00:13:05] Nuriyah Khan:

and then you picked up and moved to Dubai. It was awful. I honestly like we we we cried and we were begging our dad to just stay 2 more years ago. How many children? You? We're 4. Okay. All girls, boys?  

[00:13:17] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

3 girls, one boy. So because you're uplifting them. How old you how old were you at that time? 16? Yeah. What about your brothers and sisters? How old were they? They were  

[00:13:26] Nuriyah Khan:

14  

[00:13:28] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

13. Yeah. That's a because   I'm only thinking my kids now. If I try to move them all out of their life   and move them totally,  

[00:13:36] Nuriyah Khan:

they'd be gutted. Yeah. Oh, my god. It's heart wrenching. It's heart wrenching. And then you're you're you're not happy no matter where you go, no matter how good it is because you're still like, why did you yank me out? Absolutely, mate. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.  

[00:13:46] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

You've been with for years. So then you you put into Dubai. You put in you put into Dubai.   You're into Dubai, and what? You start a new start a new school? Yeah. New school. Was Dubai a lot better? A lot more free? Better. I could start learning to drive. I didn't have to wear an Avaya.  

[00:14:01] Nuriyah Khan:

I could go on a because women can't women can't drive in Saudi? No. They couldn't. They couldn't at the time. Now they can with permission? Now they can. Yes. With permission or I I I think it should be I think the permission element should be waived as well, but Okay. On on in practice,  

[00:14:13] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

yeah. Yeah. It's probably still there. So you've gone to Dubai. You're at a new school with your brothers and sisters  

[00:14:19] Nuriyah Khan:

living in living in what sort of area there? Very nice by the beach in Jumeirah. Okay. Really, really nice life. Very cushy.   Yeah. It was glorious. But and again, it was the perfect blend of, for me, in my eyes, East meets West. And I was getting ready to come back to London for uni anyway so I was like this is the perfect transition because Saudi warps your reality a bit. Yeah. Whereas Dubai was a bit more like you can intermingle with with boys, you can go out, you can people were, you know If he goes there to party. Yeah. Exactly. Booze is a lot more readily available. You can sneak into clubs, fake IDs. All of these things are  

[00:14:52] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

now coming to the forefront. You're a normal ish teenager. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a lot better. And then you stayed there for 2 years, left school, and applied for uni in London. Yes. Come to live with when when you come back to London, who'd you come to live with? I tried to live at home with my grandparents.   I was just thinking this. Mhmm. It was Especially you must have been from the from the girl you would have been if you stayed in that school in London, wearing the hijab at 9,   with the influence of your granddad in the mosque,   to the girl you probably then become, even though you've been in Saudi and then Dubai   with a bit of freedom.  

You've come back. What what's your granddad's opinion when you've come back?  

[00:15:28] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah, absolutely. Like I've because you can't, I couldn't even stay late at uni to go out. I would actually say there's somebody coming to give a talk or something just to be able to have part of the student experience.   Nowhere like after lectures or hang out in the student union and they would think that because I'm making, I'm saying that there's lectures and things because I wanna actually be part of this student.   Universities have a diverse experience. They thought I'd gone off the rails, obviously. Like, I couldn't keep up this commuting and coming home late and, you know, trying to live a double life. So eventually I wrote a long winded email to my dad,   saying all the reasons that I can't live here and how much the uni experience I'm missing and he just said, Okay. He And again, I'm so grateful. They understand that he he actually put me in the thick of it and I was able to stay in dorms and actually get the full experience for university because they they they just think you're a lost cause if you start even giving them thoughts that you're potentially hanging out with boys or you're   drinking or you're out clubbing and that is the   there is no scope for that. And I remember my grandfather said to me, If I was your father, I would never let you do what your dad has just allowed you to do. But I had to live my life, so I went. Interesting. At this time, when you're  

[00:16:38] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

even Saudi to Dubai coming home, you're still identifying as Muslim?  

[00:16:43] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. Very much. Do you go on mosque? No. No. No. No. No. So I was curious. Do women go mosques? Sorry? Do women go mosques? They do, but not as much as men. They they go more in, like, in Ramadan. And, you know, some of them go for, like,   I guess in the Pakistani society here anyway, we've got something called a Durst, which is not so instead of going to the mosque, like this is what my grandma used to do, all of them in the community, all of the, like, Muslim women and elders, they would have somebody's house dedicated to all meet up and then they kind of, like,   talk about hadith and the prophet's life and pray and all of that kind of jazz.  

That's their version of fucking warfare. But Tommy, just on your point, what you said is it's so poignant because if I hadn't left London Yep. And I was wearing hijab at 9 and I kept going to that same mosque, which is still there and getting even more funding   and I had been under the influence of my grandfather I would have literally been Shamima Begum. You've been Shamima Begum? I was on course to, I mean, that that was like the natural trajectory.  

[00:17:43] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Wow.   I mean not not a 100% but the the the philosophies there. No, that's the mindset. You'd have been you'd have been an an extreme Muslim Yeah. Follower of Islam dedicated to the cause. Can you tell me any of the children that you're friends with at 9,  

[00:17:57] Nuriyah Khan:

when you come back, did you meet up with William? Did you see any of them? I mean, I've seen them on the street walk past, but they're all hijabi now and more so.   And   I mean, there was the once there was a high buy, but   I I have nothing to say, like nothing in common and they've In common. Absolutely nothing in common. That's why I So you would love to say. Moved away. It sounds like your dad relocating you for education with work in Saudi  

[00:18:20] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

may have saved you. Abs I think it saved my entire family. It is. You weren't saved in Britain. You were saved by going Saudi. You're saved by going Saudi. How ironic is that? You're saved   you were saved by   going to Saudi Arabia. Yeah. Mental. But in London, you'd have been absolutely in trouble. Yeah. The state of things.   Okay. So you've come back at university. What did you study at university? Law and economics.  

[00:18:45] Nuriyah Khan:

Okay. Islamic law as well as a module. You did? Just for shits and gigs. Yeah. Good job. No. Because I actually cared for it and my plan was to go back to the Middle East once I had graduated. That's how much I didn't like   London or living here. Life was so hard compared to in Dubai when you've got like, I'm sorry it's an easier life. The sun shines.   There's, you know,   everything's open 247. It's not like here.   Yeah. And they still have that lifestyle where you can you know you have drivers, you've got maids, you've got all of that. It's not frowned upon there. So people this is why so many people go. Right? I'm not going anywhere. Yeah. Work hard, play hard.  

[00:19:18] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And there's no crime? There's no work, sir? There's no crime.  

[00:19:22] Nuriyah Khan:

There there is petty crime? Compared to London?   No. Not hardly. And it's safer. I can walk back on the streets in Dubai at like 3 AM and I wouldn't be as scared as I would be here.   So there are those little  

[00:19:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And you've So when you've come out of university,  

[00:19:38] Nuriyah Khan:

how What did you What qualifications did you get if you want me to ask? I got a 21 2. Along with honors. Yeah. I I wasn't gearing up for a first. I wanted to enjoy uni. Yeah. You had a good time. I wanted to have a good time. Yeah.  

[00:19:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And then, what'd you do for work?  

[00:19:51] Nuriyah Khan:

Well, I did actually move back to,   Dubai right after university.   And,   I  

[00:19:59] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

worked with my dad for a while. I wonder if I ask what your dad does. Sorry? Do you mind if I ask what your dad does? When he was,  

[00:20:05] Nuriyah Khan:

when he when we moved to Saudi, he was working for Mars, the chocolate company. Okay. Did he have a high job, high paying job? Yeah. Yeah. It was a It was a great package. Yes. Okay. And then we had to move to Dubai as well because their head office moved to Dubai.   Okay. And he was in charge of, like, logistics and supply chain at the time. So we were, like, moving around quite a bit as well.   And then he had the chance to like manage Pakistan which he said he would do from Dubai. So he obviously didn't wanna   Yeah. Good choice. Exactly. Saved all of our lives a bit longer in Dubai. Otherwise, you'd have been back in Pakistan. No. I mean, I don't think we would have gone with. We would say just just do trips and come back here. Keep our base in Dubai at least.  

He he's also not been back many times. Obviously, he, you know, he struggles,   with certain elements of it.   Of what? I guess it's just the the hardships  

[00:20:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

then, not like the electricity going every 2 hours then. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Back in. Accustomed to a good life after a successful career. I think so. Yeah. Well, your dad, just like if if your granddad, obviously, he was super religious. He's obviously done well with your dad. Your dad's obviously been successful.  

[00:21:03] Nuriyah Khan:

I think, honestly,   Tommy, it was that generation. My my dad,   he's all his brothers as well. Like I said, they grew up in the thick of being that second generation immigrant experience. Like, are we British? Are we Pakistani? What's this new British, Pakistani identity? Right? And then you've got, like, they grew up in a very   I mean, the immigrant experience based in, like, Southall, which was like the melting point of, like, all this Asian hotspot. And then you had,   like some kind of gang rivalries as well playing out and then you've got the skinheads as well at the time.   So they've, like, lived through all of this and they were very much they had a different outlook on life. You know, they Everyone's got their vices. In Islam, you're not allowed to gamble. You can't drink. You can't do all these things, but everyone's doing They grew up doing all of it. Everyone's doing things to certain degrees. Of course. Yes. So it's been that generation who worked hard.  



[00:21:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Were they all successful, his brother?  

[00:21:54] Nuriyah Khan:

No. Not at all. Not at all.   Yeah. My one of my one of my uncles actually went to fight in Afghanistan.   And What? In in a conflict? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the Taliban? For the Taliban. Yeah. And he I mean, again, he didn't go to university.   So He didn't. My dad was the only one that went to university.  

[00:22:15] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

So your uncle   how many how many brothers did your dad have? 3. So your uncle, the son of the imam in London, when the conflict hit off, is that with Russia? Do you have to understand? Not with America? No. Okay. When it hit off with Russia. But it was being celebrated   for Muslims to go and fight against Afghanistan fight in Afghanistan. Even for British Muslims, we were supporting it. Right? Yeah. As a country?   Yep. So he went out to fight his jihad against   the the Soviet. Yeah. Yeah. And he was again What was the world like in your family at that time? Was   if your uncle's going to fight, was  

[00:22:46] Nuriyah Khan:

it was it celebrated? Was it Well, I again, this is why I think,   again, we're lucky because my my grandma actually tried really hard to get him back here. And eventually she did and she, like, wrote to someone who went and got him and brought him back to London, like, forcefully in a way,   because he was he was insanely radicalized while he was here. Like, my mom, obviously I wasn't born, but my mom was telling me that he wouldn't even, like, look her in the eye when he would talk to her. He'd, like, look down and What year was this?   I can't remember what year it was exactly.  



[00:23:16] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Roughly.  

[00:23:17] Nuriyah Khan:

20 years ago? Because when my dad would have left university   Yeah, about 20  

[00:23:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

I don't know when did my parents go to university? In like the nineties? Early nineties? Mid nineties? In the early nineties you've got Muslim men in London insanely radicalized at that point even from their mom's point of  

[00:23:36] Nuriyah Khan:

Yes. Yes.  

[00:23:37] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Probably from your granddad's mosque.  

[00:23:39] Nuriyah Khan:

No. Also, I think so I think the I think my that was separate in a way. That was happening at home. But my my dad tells me as well, like, when he was at university,   and and I remember the advice they gave me before I was going to university. And they again, so, so strange coming from my parents. But they said, 'Whatever you do don't join the Islamic Society.' And I said, 'Okay. Why?'   Yeah. And my dad was just like, 'Just don't because,   like, it's just it's just join any society. Just don't don't don't join that one. Join the Pakistani one if you want. Join this. Join that. And he had been telling me, like, obviously in the days of Anjum Chaudhry and stuff, they would go to their universities and they would radicalize these young men. They would literally show them, like, propaganda, like videos of Muslims being killed and then say, Answer the call for jihad. And my dad said, I was so close to getting, you know, you're a young lad, you know, testosterone,   you're seeing your own your brothers and sisters being killed. They're riling you up.  

This was like after you go to the mosque, you read Jum'ah, the Friday prayer with everybody collectively. Then they come to you, they show you these videos, they talk to you. There's a bunch of men in a room and they're like literally recruiting.   And my dad said if I didn't have interest in snooker and some other things in cricket, I would have gone down that path. Exactly. In fact, remember the Stockholm bomber. He went from Luton and blew himself up. He's an Iraqi. So he come to Luton for university,  

[00:24:54] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

and he was a good natured,   lovely Muslim guy. Yeah. He come and got radicalized on campus by Ahmed Reddin on campus. Oh my God. So he radicalized him and he went and blew himself up in in Sweden.   That's the same situation. There've been up these groups operate were operating universities unchallenged for decades. Yeah? Yeah. So your dad escaped that luckily.   Yeah. I'm just wondering what your what the rest of your family outlook is. So you've got you've got uncles that are would you say radical still now?  

[00:25:24] Nuriyah Khan:

Again, this isn't Do you see? Party. No. I don't,   but it's just because I I haven't been living in that, in that area. But   again, came back and was the complete opposite. Went off to Tanzania.   I think Pretty young. Had a hippie life. Yeah. Oh, wow. And now he's come back and just kind of, you know, maybe plateaued and and no. Another uncle is completely non religious and he basically changed his name as well. He didn't even want Khan as a surname anymore. So he was actually  

[00:25:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

says  

[00:25:58] Nuriyah Khan:

says I'm not religious at all. I don't I don't buy and tell you this. I will never go to Mecca. I'll never do the pilgrimage. But also, he wants to be a successful businessman. And he thinks if people see Khan,   then there'll already be, you know, some kind of prejudice attached to that.   So yeah I think it's a bit of both for him.   Whereas my dad named my brother like what a really like Islamically powerful name,   instead. So,   Sayfullah,  

[00:26:23] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

the sword of Allah. So you're safe because you know the main radical in Luton?   Yeah. Yeah. Safe as well. Yeah. Yeah. Safe as well. Safe as well. Safe as well. Powerful stuff. Okay.   Okay. I just wanna understand the dynamic in your I'm just trying to understand the dynamic what it's like for you being in that family. You come back, you've gone to university, you've qualified, you then go back to Dubai you say? Yeah.   And how and working as what?  

[00:26:46] Nuriyah Khan:

So I worked with my dad for a bit, and then I worked for,   actually a British,   NGO that was based out there.   But it was work working with celebrities around the world who would, you know, like, do, like, some kind of art for royalties. So nothing really in Dubai was, like, getting my attention because it's very much,   oil and gas or property or these kind of industries, which obviously I after studying it so as I had a bit more of a humanitarian outlook,   and Dubai didn't have any employment opportunities for that, really.   So I struggled,   with that side of things.  

And, yeah, again, I got I got stuck into the Dubai bubble of just, you know, you're out of reality.   People just there. If you   if you have a decent life, all you think about is where's the next next nice restaurant we're going to or what's the new Michelin star restaurant that's opened. You're so detached from reality but you understand that you can't speak your mind. So I couldn't, like you know, even on WhatsApp and stuff, like, I can't you can't banter about things. You can't Is it like that in Dubai then as well? Absolutely. Because people have this facade now with Dubai that it's this amazing  

[00:27:50] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

beautiful place and everything's perfect. And and that And to be honest, I hear the argument now that's thrown. Well, look at the crime in London. Look at the mess of London that none of this is going on in Dubai. Dubai is a beautiful peaceful place that people can go live in under security,   and   they end up wanting the Islamic way. I'm sick in comparison.  

[00:28:09] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. But you can it's not free? No. No. No. That that there's a that's a veneer. Like, as soon as it comes off I mean, you can get in trouble in Dubai for writing the f word on WhatsApp to somebody. I mean, how, you know, how How do they monitor how do they monitor Islam in Dubai? How do they monitor Islam? How do they monitor Islam? How is it with regards to could you criticize Islam?  

[00:28:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Not publicly if you were to, like, you know, you you wouldn't be clever if you were to do that on any kind of social virtual medium at all. I was in I was in Dubai when I was in Dubai and Qatar when I was leaving in just eventually. I was thinking, what am I doing? I was logging in the computer in the hotel. I was logging in the computer in the hotel when I was in Qatar. I was in Qatar, I thought that you just eventually Facebook group all the time.  

[00:28:51] Nuriyah Khan:

You're braver than me. I hope you're VPN. I went to Dubai three times. Oh my god. I was at Jamaa Beach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice beach, isn't it? It's beautiful, man. Yeah.  

[00:29:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Beautiful. Was I there when Madeline when Madeline I can remember I was in that hotel when Madeline McCann got my missing. Oh my god. I remember it. Yeah.   But,   okay. So you've you you're  

[00:29:11] Nuriyah Khan:

struggling with a a purpose, are you, in Dubai Yeah. At that time? Yeah. Yeah. I was. I was. So I was I was traveling a lot, and then obviously,   my parents again were moving to Malaysia. So With work again? With work again. Yeah. Brother and sister have to go there and all? Any of them young enough to get dragged along? My brother and sister were at uni, but the little one had to go with. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. She's like, every time they say, oh, we need to talk, she's like don't. I know what it is. Where are we going now?   But I mean again it shaped her amazingly because I can actually like she she can go and kind of adapt to any   culture and people. Yeah. And She's free? She's free. Yeah. Absolutely.  



[00:29:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Okay. So you're struggling with do you come back to London? Did you no. So actually, this is, this I guess,  

[00:29:55] Nuriyah Khan:

in hindsight, it's great what happened. But this was a a low point in my life because I actually my parents didn't want me to stay in Dubai and not be married,  

[00:30:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

because How old was she?  

[00:30:05] Nuriyah Khan:

21,  

[00:30:06] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

22. How old are you now?  

[00:30:08] Nuriyah Khan:

32. Okay, man. Yeah. So   they they didn't want me to say they're unmarried because it's not right and a girl can't be out and dating and all this. It's not part of our culture or religion.   So they said either come to Malaysia or you need to do a nikka, which is like an Islamic marriage,   with this guy that I just been introduced to and we were seeing. And who's the guy? Who who introduced you to him? One of my old high school friends.   Okay. So you've been seeing him anyway? Yeah. But Yourself. So you chose him? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't You're dating some dude? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where's he from? He was originally from Pakistan, Pakistan but he was born and brought up in Dubai. Okay. So,   yeah. So so then I   they wanted me to do an Islamic marriage which obviously I didn't really want to do. But then I thought that's the only way that even if I was to go to Malaysia,   like that I can have visits back to Dubai or whatever, I can still travel.  

So   then they were like, Nope. You don't. You shouldn't do an Islamic marriage because it looks like something's gone wrong or that you're running away. So let's do a full,   like, whole big wedding so that people know that this is, you know, done the right way and it's the real deal.   So I did that. You got married to him? Him? Yeah. Yeah. I did. I did. Did you wanna get married to him? Or was it just for this purpose? No. No. I was too young and I hadn't dated my fair share of men that I wanted to. I was, you know, nowhere re ready to Did he wanna get married? Was he was he privy to these conversations, or is his mom and dad saw it all that? No. He he was pushing for it. Oh, he was pushing for it? He was definitely, Yeah. He was definitely pushing for it. Again, now now,   in hindsight, I also think there was an element of them trying to get an English passport secured in a way. Oh, his family? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He married a huge bang. Mhmm. Your family is successful. Thank God the process is not that simple anymore. But, yeah, I think that's the back then, aren't it? Yeah. It was. It was. It was. And that's why I was not bringing him to London on any trips because obviously it gets easier the more times he visited. And I would just I would just come by myself or I'd go to Malaysia to see my parents. Obviously, because the marriage was insufferable,   very much like Why? Because,   again, that's why I think there was this hidden agenda for the passport thing because after the honeymoon, the switch was just so And how he was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a completely different person. But I think there was also like some underlying mental health, you know, issues there that they hadn't told me about.  

Because when I questioned his sister and his parents, they realized like I had plopped on to something. And that's when I realized something is really How long was you seeing him, if you don't mind me asking? Before the marriage? About  

[00:32:28] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

8 months? Okay. When you say seeing him, would you live in with him? No. No. No. No. Is that because mom and dad wouldn't have approved or could you live in living with him? No. No. No. You're not even allowed to step into the the house. In Dubai? Yeah.   Okay. So you haven't lived together?   No. You're seeing each other, what, for a meal here and there? Yeah. Yeah. Like a cup of tea, breakfast, chill. If you consummated that marriage before? Oh. Where where had you were you in a sexual relationship before the marriage? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He was.  

[00:32:56] Nuriyah Khan:

Well, he wasn't a good Muslim then, was he? No. No. No. That Naughty boy. Who who is? No. No. No. No. Okay. Would you say a lot of Muslims are doing that? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, we we know. We know which which hotels don't check. We know which where to go. You know? As a teenager you know how to navigate it. You can find out your way around it. Absolutely.  

[00:33:14] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Okay. So then you marry him. Was he nice up until the marriage end? Was he a nice guy? Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, that front   working. If you were 21, how old was he? He was the same age. Okay. Or a year older. Was he working? Was he successful?  

[00:33:27] Nuriyah Khan:

Intelligent? Again, just like living   off daddy's money kind of thing. So just throwing around, like, wealth and   Oh, a wealth a wealthy family? Yeah. And he would kind of wanna live beyond his means as well. So I think that's why we were mismatched as he would think we should take business class tickets and stuff. I I thought he should do something to at least deserve that.   So there was a lot of issues there as well and I'd keep coming back to London and and just, like, having time away. You'd keep escaping   Yeah. A lot. So I know. Like I was with him for about a year and a half. I think I took maybe 7 trips and maybe spent like 5, 6 months actually with him.  

Did you tell your parents you weren't happy at that time? Not for a long time because, as you said, like, I thought this was on me because it was my decision.   And in our culture, culture, religion, a bit of a Was it your decision then?   I mean, no. That's what I think. No. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's ridiculous that I had to do that. As a Muslim girl, you're thinking I've married him. It's my decision. I made this decision. And you're told you can't do whatever you want as a woman, but do it once you're married. And do it from your husband's house and do it under like, you can't do anything before that. If you want your freedom, if you wanna travel, you have to do it. Once you're married? Yes. But that's the wrong way around. Absolutely.   Absolutely.  



[00:34:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

You're meant to do it for now. So when you get married, stay home. Exactly.   My husband travels.   Okay.   So you you're flying back to England. How does it how does it work as a young Muslim lady   in that situation?   And actually, I wanna know, when you say he turned,   what was he like?  

[00:35:01] Nuriyah Khan:

Getting very like   so I I didn't really I I never had any understanding of what like, you know, emotional abuse and things like that were. But he was starting to, like, take on very creepy behavior that I just would think to myself this isn't normal.   Like, you know, taking on certain personalities   of, like, we were watching House of Cards and or like a show he would take on- I was watching Mad Men at one point. He would start acting like the main character of that show, Don Draper.   And when we'd go out to eat, he would order a drink in the way that Don Draper would order the drink. And I was like, what is wrong with this man? It sounds pretty funny. I know. But you just having a bit of banter? No. No. No. But then Tommy once when I was literally asleep and he was watching the OJ trial and he, like, hovered over my bed with some whiskey. And he's like, this is a   great, like documentary. You should watch this. And then he put the glove on. Oh, no. No. I was like I'm I literally was like one code away from some telling my friends to like get me out of here because yeah. You fell into you fell into it. So I know we can laugh. You it sounds quite funny. But in hindsight, for you, was it was it an intimidating behavior? It was it was tripping me out. I was like, what what is going on? And then and then I just started to feel really, really, like, just on edge. And, like, when his car would approach, I just wanted to, like, I'd go out to walk the dog and I'd go out for a very long time just to be out in public.  

So that if you wanted to come find me, we'd be within a public space. But then I started, like, watching TED Talks and feeling down. And I'm not really one to be   depressed or, like, feel really low. And at one point when I thought, like, what's the point of this? Or when I had, like, a split second of suicidal ideation, I quickly Googled, like, a TED Talk.   And then I was like something came up and then I Googled, like types of abuse and I realized there's emotional abuse, psychological abuse, financial abuse, all of these things   and why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling. And it's like, finally, is this what this person's saying? Are they gaslighting you? Are they I didn't know what these words were. I I had no clue.  

And then I thought, shit, there was like a checklist. Like, is this this this is happening to you? And everything Did they take on characters from films?   Yeah. Yeah. They missed out that. They were like, yeah, personality issues. Like this flipping and not remembering what you're saying. Or it got to the point where I had to start recording what he was saying because he would, like, outright deny it and make you think you're going crazy. He's playing games with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you when you have to start recording somebody, you know things are   beyond repair.  



[00:37:19] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Okay. And and this is when you're,   are you going Are you practicing at this time still? At this age? When you're married to him, obviously, you've had an Islamic marriage. But Or you've had a big marriage. But you're,  

[00:37:30] Nuriyah Khan:

is he going mosque? Is he religious? Is he talking about religion at all at home? No. Pretty pretty liberal. His parents were. Okay. His sister was as well. And again, you're in Dubai so we all observe Ramadan. We all observe all the basic things anyway. But as far as like him individually got, no. He loved his booze. He   loved travelling. He Yeah. The whole shebang. There was nothing really. But like belief wise I still believed in in Allah, in Islam, and all of that jazz. And then And so did he. How did you make the decision to leave him?   I think the decision was more made for me when my dad was coming back on business one day and I hadn't said anything. But there were a couple of people I'd confided in and my best friend just took the initiative because she called up. I think my dad was was weirded out that I wasn't answering his calls because I had planned to leave. But I had to try and get, like, my money, get my jewelry, get all my possessions that I wanted to take with me because obviously I didn't want him to know that I was leaving. So I had planned my escape and I didn't even wanna tell my dad. I just said to my dad, I'll meet you for lunch tomorrow. Your shit's bad if if he if he if he's just gonna come home, you're gone. I know but I would like I mean the level the level of you where you're at is I need out of here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again though, I wasn't like I wasn't planning to do it that night. No. I had a plan in place and I thought I was just gonna go and see my dad. But my dad got the inkling that something was off and then he was like, no, he's not answering my calls. And I think my best friend explained to him what was happening, and he said, Tell her to just get her passport and leave now. And my   friends   came and picked me up and, yeah, we just, we got out of there. And then obviously my dad was like, Why? Why? Why didn't you tell me? Yeah, why didn't you tell me?  

Shame, culture,   honor, guilt.  

[00:39:09] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Again, I'm the first person. Because  

[00:39:11] Nuriyah Khan:

as Muslim women, they're not meant to have a divorce? Yes. The last, last, last, last resort. You're taught to be patient. You're taught to make it work. Deal with whatever cards you're dealt.   So, like, I pushed him to maybe go get therapy when I realized, like, that's no way gonna work. And whatever condition he might have, it's like a long term thing and I'm not living my life dealing with this. But yeah, it's, I was I am the first   woman in my family to get divorced, even in, like, my immediate family.   So I just felt like, yeah, there was that. You're lucky you didn't have children. I know.  



[00:39:44] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Even the, Did he push you for children?  

[00:39:47] Nuriyah Khan:

No actually because he had just realized what travelling meant because again   when he was last thought he held he couldn't really travel the world but then when he was travelling with me I showed him all of Europe,   and I showed him a lot of the world and he was on that hype.  

[00:40:02] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Okay.   Okay. So you've got divorced.   You've run off, have you? So you've left home and gone where?  

[00:40:09] Nuriyah Khan:

I just went back to my parents house in Dubai. Dubai? Yeah. And I got a job, and I actually got a job that I really really enjoyed. So I was really living a nice life. What was the job doing?   It was working for a   Swedish startup that connects   like, international students with universities and makes, like, the partnerships. So I came to the UK and I toured all the universities. It was awesome.  

[00:40:31] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

But and I'm You're involved in the uni life still?  

[00:40:33] Nuriyah Khan:

When you was touring, was you still getting involved in the uni life? No. No. No. No. No. No. Actually, I'd go at really dead time. Times. There wasn't Oh, yeah. There wasn't a Glad you thought that sounded like a great tour. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It would be actually if there was more nights like that. Liverpool, I did. Liverpool was fun. Great city? Yeah. Great city. Great city. Okay.  

[00:40:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

So then you you yeah. You're you're doing your new job? Yeah. You're, what, 24?  

[00:40:56] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And everyone's, like, my similar age and, like, great bunch of colleagues. So, again, like, the England living where? Just in Dubai? My parents. Yeah. In Dubai. And, like, again, I think England was playing, the World Cup was on, so we would have nights out watching the football. But he obviously now is, like, amping things up because I haven't got the divorce yet. My parents just said, We'll talk to his parents and we'll figure this, like, separation out, like, civilly and it could be without the courts.   And then he started following me. I started finding out my new place of work.  

Work. He started he hired someone to watch me at my house.   I had to sneak through the back door. I need to call Ubers.   My life was getting just   I felt like I was being watched all the time. And it was getting unsafe for me to just, you know, be escorted somewhat, like not be escorted somewhere. And then my parents weren't allowed. And that was that for a young woman? That was crazy.   I had like one of my friends come and stay with me because my parents were like here in the UK   And,   he would send things to my house, like really intimidating, weird things, like either,   like delivery drivers with really weird notes   attached with some food. Or, like, you know, in Islam they use black magic and   they kind of, like, think that because I've left there's something wrong with me or that they can use black magic to bring me back. Sometimes I would wake up and there would be like a like just absolute shit just chucked outside my villa   And, like, I would, like some people who would believe it would be like, don't step on it. Don't step on it. Like, walk around it. But I'm, like, just trying to go to work and I'm dealing with all of this. And I went to the police in Dubai over and over again and I said this is the situation. He's watching my, he's literally watching my room window.  

He's, following me to work. He's sending me flowers and gifts up to my office. Like, again, creating such a scene. And the police officer said, Okay, install a camera. The next time he comes and does something we'll catch it. So I installed cameras, did everything.   Again, footage very sketchy because sometimes I don't know how he would, like, come from the back and leave something else somewhere else or he would get someone else to do it. And then I realized the police aren't really doing anything. They don't care.   And then I went over and over again to, like, say I need to collect the rest of my stuff from my house, like, some of my belongings that his family have kept on to. And again, they flipped that and then   he he said that I was guilty of theft. So they put a theft charge on me for me wanting to go and collect my belongings. And I was like, why is the police twisting everything this way? And obviously, he had, like, paid them and he was there Would you need to pay them? Or would it just be that he's the man, you're the woman, you're in an Islamic country? There is that element, but he was hanging around this police station Okay. And making sure this because, yeah, he was making sure that my life would be made hell anyway.  

But then it got really bad. Like, when the police started asking me for my passport for these, like, charges, you don't need I don't need to hand over my passport.   But when they when they realized, like, I'm actually gonna go ahead and get divorce because, you know, screw this amicable stuff,   the Dubai police called me and said that there is a charge against me for disobeying my husband,   which is called Ta'azojiah   in Arabic, which is a Sharia law. And I need to return to his house.   Otherwise, they will arrest me forcibly and take me back home, and I can't leave without his permission.  

[00:44:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

That's in Dubai.   Just for all you fuckers who keep bigging the place up. Yeah? That's in Dubai. That's in Dubai.   Yeah. For the great place of Dubai. It winds me up how I see people big up how it is when I know still know what I know what's going on there in certain aspects to women. Yeah. In lots of issues. Okay. And they've contact I'm guessing you run.  

[00:44:24] Nuriyah Khan:

I ran back to to my house, and I was like, mom, dad,   this is what's up. And they were like, no way. And I was like, yeah. I thought no way as well, but it is possible in this country.   And my dad was like, there is no way any judge or anyone or any court of law could send you back there. You should reenact. Not on my, that's exactly what I said. I said, apparently Dad, do you know that? Should real law can. Apparently, it can be followed.   Apparently, it's fun. Sure. So it's this. Exactly.   And where does that come from? The the Quranic verse about if you merely fear disobedience, obviously me leaving him and leaving the house is mad disobedience.   So   yeah, that that was put on me and I was like, shoot. Now things are very, very serious.  

So this   I I stayed, like, away as much as I could. How long is this going on from you leaving him to not getting divorced? How long how long is the period of leaving him to divorce? This is a good year and a half. Oh, wow. Good year and a half. Wow. And Ramadan came along and he would stall and stall the process. And I would keep saying So I was just buying time. Every time they would call me, I would say, I'll come with my passport. I'll come. I'll come. I'll come. And I just kept, like, my lawyer is trying to do her stuff in in at the same time. And also I would make use of their laws. Like, you know, in, like, in in Dubai a policeman can't take you to the police station after, I think it's 6 pm,   without a female escort or something like that. So I would refuse. They came to my house to try and get me and I said, I'm sorry my dad's not here and he's my mehram in Islam. He's like your guardian. Yeah. You can't take me to the police station. There's not a woman they've got 4 men to come and take me to charge me with adultery or something. And I said, how There's no woman here so I can't come. Again, I saved myself from that situation.  



[00:45:59] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

I'm glad we're talking about this because I'm totally getting on to your mindset of leaving Islam.   So,   you're awaiting arrest. What happens? How does that end?  

[00:46:09] Nuriyah Khan:

So they I I was about to give in. I was ready to cave. I parked outside the police station. Give in, go to the police station and get forcefully taken to this lunatic. Yeah. Say, well, at least here's my passport. What do you want? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.   So I was just about to go. My lawyer was in there and I'm deflated at this point. I've had months months of harassment. All these men being sick. This must have ruined you your  

[00:46:31] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

couple of years of your life. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.  

[00:46:34] Nuriyah Khan:

Great job. Great for I was on like high alert. I probably aged 10 years in that time but again, just sitting in this police station with all these like UAE policemen also, you know, I was respectful. I wore in a bio. I hid any tattoos that I had. I was, you know,   they were just   misogynistic,   horrible, flirting,   not writing down what I'm saying but just   very, very weird way of thinking that, you know, like, why do you want a divorce though? Okay. Who will you marry after? I'm like, what are you saying?   God, this is No, I'm single. That's it. Literally the state of the police.  

So anyway, Tommy, last, last, like, last ditch attempt. I I make a call to the emergency number for British expats in Dubai was my last hope because I know in Dubai if you hand over your passport,   your your number, they don't know. And I needed at least the British consulate or someone to know, Hey, this is where they've taken Nuria, this is what they've done or this is what they're charging her with. Someone should be aware. So I called and this guy answered and I just gave him a 30 second run down. Get your ass here. I'm like, Yeah, he literally said, You got your passport in your hand? I was like, Yeah. He's like, Do not. Do not. Just   put your foot down and make your way to the airport where these stupid charges don't apply.' And my lawyer at the very same time ran in and she's like, 'Get out of here. They're trying to charge you with the highest level of things and they're gonna make your life miserable. She's like, Forget the divorce. That was the first time I heard her say, because she was trying to fight for me and say, we'll get you divorced. That's the first time I heard her say, forget the divorce. Just get it to safety. Get out of it. Yeah.  



[00:48:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Of course. She had to flee Dubai.  

[00:48:03] Nuriyah Khan:

Went to the airport and what flew back to UK? You're actually hang on. One of my one of my colleagues has booked a flight, and she was so clever. She's like, I'm not gonna send you via Muscat in Oman because even they might return you. Because Dubai was gonna put a travel ban on me because I hadn't given my passport to the police. So every time I went through the airport, like, with my Emirates ID, I was, like, so scared when the alarm would go off. Waiting in. Yeah. And then I got on the flight to Baku.   So came my To Baku? Azerbaijan.  

Okay. Oh my god. Tommy, like, it was so when I got to the airport,   when they scanned my passport, the alarm went off. And I was like, that's it, that's it. The police are gonna come get me. And put you back. Yeah. And then the woman was like, I was like, what's wrong, what's wrong, what's wrong? Can I get on the plane? At least that's like more international territory. And she was like, oh, I'm sorry. And then I was like, what? And she's like, is it okay if you get moved to the front of the plane? And I was like, shoot. They're gonna come get me because I don't they won't make a scene. They can arrest me from the front. And I was like, yeah, I was so just wanting to get on the plane and get off Dubai airport territory. I was like, yeah, yeah, sure. Put me in the front. Got in the front and realized I'd been upgraded to business class. She put a white cloth on me, gave me some champagne, and my mom's like, Are the wheels off the runway? Are the wheels off the runway?  

[00:49:11] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Mom.  

[00:49:12] Nuriyah Khan:

Bye, Dubai. Fucking peace out.  

[00:49:14] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

But what? You know, like,   this is just your story of your instant of trying to flee an abusive partner   and the struggle of it. How many women do you think this is happening to in countries like Dubai?  

[00:49:27] Nuriyah Khan:

So so so many.   And they don't have the the luxury that I had of like You had the British family. You had the British passport. Exactly. If you didn't have the British passport,  

[00:49:36] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

where would you be now?  

[00:49:38] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. In a parallel world, absolutely.  

[00:49:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And that's in Dubai.  

[00:49:44] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. At the behest of this. And that's the reason I decided to, like, speak up as well because basic things that I now in hindsight realize could have saved me having a divorce clause added to my Islamic marriage, which by default isn't really there because because the majority of Muslims in the UK don't get a British marriage. They Yeah. They get an Islamic marriage Exactly. Just done in their mosque Yeah. Which is what the argument comes in now for an aspect of Sharia law,  

[00:50:07] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

which Muslims are arguing for an aspect of Sharia law, so that they can undo that marriage, you know? Yeah. In the UK.   Okay. So you you've you've led it to the UK.   You land in the UK.   Is this your   is   this your moment of questioning   your faith or not?   Yeah. Was this the was this the was this the thing that made you question   Islam and question everything around it or was it just was this a pathway there?  

[00:50:38] Nuriyah Khan:

So I I came back Yep. Processed  

[00:50:40] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

everything that I just been through. Where'd you stay when you come back? With my grandparents. With your grandpa? Yeah. Lovely mom. Yeah. What did he say? What's his what was his opinion? They Of you legging it from your husband?  

[00:50:53] Nuriyah Khan:

They were I think my dad had given them a talk to say listen, she's gone through some stuff. Just whatever you think and whatever, just don't put it on her right now. Just leave her alone. And I think that's what they gave me enough space to just kind of think and heal and whatever.   So I was writing, I got therapy, amazing therapy. Did Jeff leave you've left your job then. You've left your life. I actually might. The job was they were so nice, the company I was working for in Dubai. They they they would see me go leave work and go to court and put in a buyer on and come back stressed. They would see me go through this. My manager was like even I flew like, when I flew to London, he was like, do what you gotta do for your safety. It's not a problem. Just and they were so flexible and I really do Western company. Western company. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Okay. But then I then I started writing and I was like trying to understand what had what had happened to me. And then I thought, how do I tell my story? Like, what's happened? And how can I How old are you at this point?   25?  



[00:51:48] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

20. Okay. 22.  

[00:51:49] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. So I was like, what am I gonna   how am I gonna defend this? Especially here, like, when I when I tell people what happened, they'll be like, oh, that's what happens in Muslim countries, you know, to women. And I was trying to make sense of how they've used,   something that they can consider Islamic   against me because I thought maybe this is just men abusing their power because I'm still a believer deep down. I thought this is just men being, you know, on a power trip.   And then obviously, finally,   I had access to a free internet. I didn't need to use VPN. I could access Islamic sources.  

I   started thinking, how do I defend Sharia against me? And I thought, if this is God's law, surely it's come from the Quran itself. Because I'd studied Islamic law at university, so I knew Sharia was derived from the Quran itself.   And so I thought,   let me read what Again, I'd studied law, right? So I was like, let me read how they could take that from the Quran and put that law on me. And then it was the first time, Tommy, I actually read the Quran in English as an adult.   Not in just, like, to be mystified but to be, like, from like a critical mind. So what's God saying? What the hell is God ordering?   And as soon as I read it I was like, Oh,   I get it. Even I could do that to me using that verse.  



[00:53:00] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Of course, it makes sense. What did you realize and how it could   how the law was there to be manipulated or or how the Islamic law was just oppressive on women, which which was what as your as your understanding this?  

[00:53:15] Nuriyah Khan:

It's disgustingly oppressive towards women, and it's so vague that it will allow for it's all encompassing. Like, it's a catchall for women.   You are you're oppressed, there's no way out and all of these things like what was put on me is justified very much so by the guy himself.   Because the Quran is Sharia is divine law. Right? So it is it comes from that and there's and then I looked into discussions about where what was specifically on me, daa as al jia, like disobedience of the wife,   where it comes from. And in Egypt and Tunisia,   they've had these discussions, like, when there's, like, an Islamic ruling. Scholarly discussion. Yeah. Like a j'man, a consensus   on what disobedience means and entails.  

So this was quite What does it mean anything? Literally. Answering back, not looking at you properly, anything. Anything.   So anything covers disobedience and much of a punishment. I remember it's merely fear. It doesn't even have that doesn't even have to have taken place. He has fear of disobedience. Yeah. Yeah. So you might disobey him. Yeah. And you can't have a legitimate. Yeah. Oh, he's paranoid. He's got a feeling you might disobey him.   That's enough.  

[00:54:19] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

You're 25, 26. You've grown up as a Muslim. You've practiced Islam. You've previously worn the hijab. Your parents' granddad runs a mosque.   And here you are now questioning everything. Yeah.   How's that?   As in for you, when you're looking at this and you're thinking you disagree with it strongly.   That must be a bit of   a You've lived 25 years of a lie.  

[00:54:43] Nuriyah Khan:

That's exactly it. Yeah. How do you   do you want to accept it?   Yeah.   Well,   so after that, to try and save it? You know, like, the the last, again, last ditch attempts to be   like, surely, surely, like there is something that will   That will justify that. Make this redundant somehow   or balance out. Yeah. So I was like okay if this is Allah which is ridiculous, Allah can't mess up. But if this is Allah messing up or giving the the room for this to happen in the Quran, surely Mohammed maybe must have come and, you know, just fix this up a little bit to save women or protect women a bit more.   And then I went to the hadith   and I, like you were saying,   I was flabbergasted,   I felt sick, I was shocked,   I felt betrayed. I felt lied to. And I was in my other grandma's house and in front of me there was an Allah sign and a Muhammad sign. And I just remember, like, looking up and thinking,   this will never, ever, ever be the same. And then automatically you feel like you're in The Truman Show because everyone around you is is immersed in this and you've realized   what this could be. So I remember for the first time searching, is Islam the truth   on the   Internet? And then I woke up to this world of, like, ex Muslims, ex Muslims in North America,   Council of Ex Muslims in Britain, there's people speaking out.  

But the only time I'd ever heard of somebody leave Islam was at university, outside my Islamic law module, when some this guy said to me, I'm I was Muslim but I left. And I thought he was was crazy. I literally was like, what's wrong with you? Who leaves?   And I'd never come across that again. I didn't even I couldn't even convey that you like, fathom the fact that you could leave. I didn't think that was an option.   It's not an option. It's not an option technically. Yeah.   That's true.   It's absolutely not. Yeah.  

[00:56:32] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

How much of us   because bear look, I'm just thinking of you here personally.   You fled   your   Dubai, you've left your job, you've left your husband,   and here you are now leaving your religion.   As a young woman,   how alone did you feel?  

[00:56:53] Nuriyah Khan:

It's quite isolating like within a family dynamic especially   because when you leave Islam, everything, like, a lot crumbles with it. Right? So a lot of, like, your your predisposed notions towards, like,   people that Islam tells you to hate for example. That you naturally didn't really feel hateful but you held on to some hate because Islam told you to. So all of these things are dropping away which means your worldview is changing, your moral compass is changing but everybody around you is still very much, you know, in this bubble. And you feel like you feel like a walking zombie amongst them. But   thankfully, that's where, like, Twitter at the time came in very, very handy because I realized there were people out there saying their peace, and YouTube videos saved my life because I was like, I'm not alone and I I don't I'm I'm not crazy.  

Because in that moment you think, am I the only one that realized Islam is absolute sham? It's a con? And we've he's been conning people for 1400 years but people spend their lives   dedicated They live and die within this con.   That's wild to me. And am I the only person that's, like, stepped outside of the matrix? You do feel that for a while. And I think that's why it's so important to, like, know that there's ex Muslims out there. This is a thing. We exist. It's not crazy to have these thoughts, and there's a community.  

[00:58:04] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Do you mind if I ask, at that   time,   were there any pivotal ex Muslims that you listened to? Was there any pivotal YouTubers that you were listening to  

[00:58:16] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. So for me, because I was so adamant and living in the Middle East, I knew that like if I leave Islam, I'm not gonna And this is so bad again because this is what Islam says, Arabic and you should speak Arabic and all that. I only gave credence to Arabic speaking youtubers who were who were talking about Islam. So   I I listened to Sharif Gabor who's an Egyptian, ex Muslim still in Egypt, I believe, in a precarious situation.   And I listened to,   the masked Arab   who has, like, videos of how jihad and ISIS and all these things come directly from the scripture. That was enough for me. I don't know why I just needed that reassurance that an Arabic speaker is also saying what I am saying. He gets it. Yeah. He gets it. If he gets it, then I'm not He's not misinterpretating   the Quran. Exactly. Exactly. But then, obviously and then apostate prophet,   Haris Sultan, all of these people who were, like, you know,   crucial in being   like the, I guess, some of the most prominent voices out there first to be like, it's okay. And tackling, like, the strong ones. Like tackling the Mohammed hijabs, Ali Adarwa,   Pakistani Muslims who are insanely fanatical.  

So I guess there was enough, like, power in numbers.  

[00:59:21] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Would you   how do you sit your dad down   and tell him or your granddad?  

[00:59:29] Nuriyah Khan:

My granddad? I don't.   Thankfully so I don't have to. He's got dementia now. Okay.   My father, I did not plan to tell him.   He saw my Twitter. At the time, it was called Twitter. He saw my Twitter bio. And he And what's saying ex Mosley? Dad's just looked on and saw ex Muslim. Yeah. What the fuck's happening? Literally, it was in passing. He just stopped me. I was walking upstairs and he's like, so what? You're ex Muslim now? And I was like,   Alright, so we're doing this here? And I was like, yeah?   And he's like, But why ex Muslim? And I was like, I need to use that label just if it's for a particular purpose. It serves a purpose right now.   And you might not like it, but I I must use it. And then Why? Did did so did you try and say  

[01:00:11] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

give him an excuse for why you you're using it?  

[01:00:15] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. Or did you just outright say, I've left. It's bullshit. Or would you No. I said there's more of us, and we need to use this term because this is, something that needs to be normalized. And Okay. I wasn't really given much pushback on it thankfully, because I think they've raised us to be curious and educated. And my mom always says to my dad like, this is her So I think when he tries to not stop me, but discourage me from speaking out, it's more from a safety perspective. They are really, really worried. Like, even when I traipse around London, like, I can see the stress on their face when I leave to go and speak at, like, you know, some event related to Islam or whatever.  

[01:00:48] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

But my mother always says this is her exercising her free speech, so you gotta let it So your mom your mom and dad are would you say they're a rarity from a Pakistani family?  

[01:00:58] Nuriyah Khan:

Every single Pakistani   I've met says my parents are an anomaly. They are, wow. Like, how do you have parents like this? Because  

[01:01:06] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

other parents would possibly kill you. Yeah.  

[01:01:09] Nuriyah Khan:

At least disown you, maybe shun you, blackmail you, emotionally manipulate you. Manage up. Yeah. We'll talk about ex Muslim.  

[01:01:16] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Where we are here, it's a village 5 minutes down that way, and I was walking past. This has gone up to probably 10 years ago. And I I walked past and this Asian woman stopped me out to shop and she said, oh my god, Tommy. Oh my god. She said, please come to my house. I'm freaking what? Well, this is weird.   Please come to my house. When I went to her and I and she said, please please,   let me just talk to you. Come to I only live there. So I went to her house. She's been hiding there for like 7 years.   She's only from Hemorrhabstain.  

Yeah. She'd been hiding there because she left Islam. And I I met a boyfriend who was an English lad.   I met him and he said, we've watched all your videos. We've been watching everything. This was at the time of the English defense league. She spoke to me about her life as an ex Muslim in in hiding. Yeah. Because she believes her brothers and her family would murder her. Wow.   How do we What's your opinion   as an ex Muslim? You've obviously met a lot of ex Muslims in the UK.   There's no organized Get out for them. There's no You know, if you want to leave a far right group, there's all these heavily funded organizations who will come in and help you leave that organization.   Yeah. If you want to leave a gang,   there's massively   funded   organisations   that support you through that process,   that help you move to safe houses.  

If you're a Muslim   and you're sitting there in a densely populated Muslim community that's extreme   and you want to express your freedom in Great Britain,   how does one do that? Do you know of any groups that help? Do you know if there's any government funded help to leave Islam policies   that would fund and support safe houses for ex Muslims?  

[01:02:51] Nuriyah Khan:

Not that I'm aware of that, you know, specifically catered to that at all. I think it's it's far from that. I think, actually, we need to we need to flip our services because at the moment I mean, I don't know. At the minute, I wouldn't even feel safe reporting to the police that I've potentially left Islam if, you know,   who knows what kind of police officer you've got, what his thoughts are, all of that kind of jazz. But,   I guess the Council of Ex Muslims Britain   is an organization that I felt like   there's there's one, I guess, institution here that is set up with that in the title. And if you look at the website, Tommy, there's 1,000 and thousands of people who have signed up to it.  

But that's it. Safer because they need safer. Yeah. We have no we have no protocols. They need  

[01:03:30] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

protection. They need re They need they need hiding if they want to leave. If there's women out there watching this, young Muslim girls sitting in a household who are scared,   how do they leave?   That's the thing. And the the police are No. No. What you what you're doing is very brave. You're putting your face out there. You're telling your story, which hopefully inspires other people to search for their own freedoms.   But in in a real world that we're in,   you are risking your life. Yeah.  

[01:04:00] Nuriyah Khan:

And there's no real I mean, I I say the that's when I say I theoretically, I'm safe in this country.   But really, the police are reactive, right, as opposed to proactive. So no matter what's happening, no matter the amount of threats, death threats that any of us, like, activists or people, receive, the police are just like, okay, cool. Well, we can't really do anything until something's happened to you. So really you're just sitting ducks for if something was to ever happen to you because there's no mechanisms to safeguard you in the interim.   It's it's more of a it's a free for all and obviously Muslim council should the ex Muslim  

[01:04:32] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

council, should they be should there be some organized effort by ex Muslims to create   a charity   that funds these people.   I just think that it's drastic that there's probably a lot of people wanting to leave Islam and aren't free to. I'm free to because of the the isolation from the family, which is a problem.   Would I want to leave something that would mean my whole family will never talk to me again? It'd be devastating.   We'll break my family. I think you've been quite lucky by the sounds of your mom and dad. Yeah. They still talk to you. Yeah. About your brothers and sisters. Yeah. They we we we get on very, very well. And I think  

[01:05:05] Nuriyah Khan:

my leaving as well has obviously affected them. It does have ramifications in a in a tight knit family. So, yeah, I'd say a couple of them are very much veering towards,  

[01:05:15] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

being on their way out. Yeah. That's it. Gone.  

[01:05:17] Nuriyah Khan:

You're the domino. Boom. 1 generation. It's the domino. Yes.  

[01:05:21] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

In that domino.   Okay. Now that's one thing I think that as ex Muslims, there must be.   Someone has to create some sort of   network   of safety houses   and of funding   that helps people in Britain   have freedom. Yeah. And I think if the the government recognizes The government should. This is a government issue. This is a government issue   from girls ladies like yourself.   They should be supportive because how many have been killed?   I don't know if you've read the story yesterday. It's just in Sweden. The young girl who was pregnant. Do you read it? No. No. Her Somali boyfriend just strangled her to death through honor because she wasn't a Muslim   because she wasn't a Muslim. But I always think of I've always spoke about   I've always spoke about Muslims attacking non Muslim women. Yeah. There was a girl,   I hope you don't mind me naming her. Will I name her? But there's a girl who's going out of a Pakistani and looting, a white girl. She end up living with him in his house. She used to wear the full niqab. Yeah. Beautiful girl as well. She's wear the full niqab. She end up getting about 8 years for heroin. They all   did. And,   when Lee Rigby got killed, she contacted me and said, Tom, yeah reacts. Yeah. Because I've grown up with her. She said, I need to speak out. I need to speak out. I said, okay. And I wanna meet her and she wants to speak out for the Pakistani women.  

She said, what you don't get, Yaks. You see in every house, there's a woman there with no passport. Mhmm. So she was telling me the story of Lewton. Like she was his wife. Yeah. My friend, the girl I know. Yeah. She she's gone on to have a great life now. Yeah. But the best thing that happened was getting a ton for heroin, madly. But she was, he used to batter her in one room and then walk in and beat the Pakistani woman. The difference is Pakistani woman didn't have a passport. Couldn't speak English. Yeah. Yeah. So he told the store She told me the story of how many women are in these houses   in towns like Luton who are Muslim girls brought up as Muslim and stuck in this country and stuck in stuck in a life of slavery   who there's no help for. Is the would you   in your knowledge growing up,   you've been abroad, but   are you in any knowledge that there's Muslim women being treated in this way in the UK that don't have a get out for help either because of the honor, because of the the danger?  



[01:07:34] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. Absolutely. I actually work in the DV sector. So the Working what? Domestic violence sector. Okay. And the amount of, as you're saying, cases which come in for obviously domestic abuse but the overlap with the amount of referrals I do to the NRM,   the National Referral Mechanism for Modern Slavery,   is insane because some of these women, again,   they actually want to bring them from Pakistan itself,   because they know that they're not gonna be able to get by here. So some of these women I speak to have been here for a year and a half, Tommy. They've been sleeping in like what you would call like a little storage room. K. Literally bought here to be for domestic servitude.   There's no marriage. There's no love. There's none of that involved. They don't even I'd ask these women sometimes, like, where, especially if they call if they, like, call us when the the perpetrator's out. So they're trying to plan an escape and I, you know, just do little things like, 'Can you get to the nearest police station? Can you get to your nearest bus stop?' You take the 85 bus to here. They don't know how to read the signs or how to, you know, do anything. And some of them go, are completely,   fall through the cracks. It's only the ones that get spotted or seen or they've got a friend that takes control and calls a number or something that that we're able to help them.  



[01:08:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

But yeah, this has happened across the board. What we talk about here is the women the from your experience in the domestic abuse, is that are we talking about Muslim households? Absolutely. Yes. Yes. And especially situations when the man has quoted the Quran while beating her.  

[01:09:01] Nuriyah Khan:

And you would think that that's enough for the woman to, once she's left him, question the religion. But a lot of the ones   I work with tend to   go more religious and think that that's just a him problem.  

[01:09:13] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

What do you think that is? Sorry? What do you think that is?  

[01:09:17] Nuriyah Khan:

I think it's it's what like the need for Islam and that a need for hope especially after what they've been through. They   again, and I don't   nobody reads it with the with the mind to be put off. So if a man is quoting that, he's literally verbatim quoting the grantee while he's beating you. In my mind,   how would you stay after that? But the way that they twist and turn it or make excuses for it is because the power of faith is is insane.  

[01:09:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

You say the power of faith there and is it a real thing I take from this is you were 25,   26, very educated.   You're a smart lady.   Your granddad was an imam. But at the age of 26, you had no idea what Islam was.   Yeah.   How many Muslims are there? Because I sit down like my mates, 22 Afghani boys I went to school with. I remember sitting down next to him and I was in Lewton Court and he sat down. He goes, Yax,   I don't think it's as bad as what you say.   I said, you don't think, but what do you know? Like seriously, what do you know? Yeah. He said, I don't know anything, professor. I don't know anything. I said, but you're willing to defend it. I find it mad. Yeah. So in your experience,   you've got to 26. As I said, you're a very intelligent girl. Your imam Your your granddad's an imam. You've lived in Saudi,   but you had no knowledge,   true knowledge of the agenda,   should I say,   of Islam. How many other Muslims are there out there? Do you think in this country,   in this country especially,   who are blindly defending something they have little knowledge about? How many because most Muslims most people think, well, they know everything about their religion because Emerson.  

You are 26, didn't know really much. Yeah. And you you're from a very strong conservative background. So how many in your opinion how many Muslims out there in your opinion do you think are just defending this without the knowledge of what it is?  

[01:11:05] Nuriyah Khan:

So many, Tomi. I would say everyone that probably calls themselves a moderate   or liberal, they probably don't. Unless unless you're calling yourself liberal,   because you consciously decided to, you know, want that term because you don't want to be extreme. Moderate, genuinely I would say don't know. Like I would say my own family don't know, to be honest. The depths of it. I'd As you said, I did not know. You went down the rabbit hole. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the case for most people. So you do blindly defend it because even even Islam TV and stuff that gets broadcast here on Sky, I've I've been dealing with it during Ramadan and I I can see how they cherry pick hadiths to show Muslims they're like, just nice little things here and there. You never talk about, you know, what Mohammed's done when he's gone into battle or the other, you know, ills of his personal life and that's really morally questionable. They never show any of that. And as you said, you're right. I went through the whole, technically, the whole system   of being brought up as a Muslim not knowing basic facts of Islam.  

Even how it was spread.  

[01:12:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

By the sword?   Yeah.   How else is it spread?   Just like, can I ask your opinion?   You've been around the world. You've you've obviously now studied Islam, have you? Mhmm. You've gone through the life of Mohammed.  

[01:12:18] Nuriyah Khan:

Knowledgeable. Basic. Yeah. The basic. Enough to put me off. Okay.  

[01:12:24] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

What's your opinion on the migration situation into the UK?   Our immigration situation, these men that are travelling here, are they travelling here for safety? Is can there, under Islam, be another aspect of immigration, of migration?   Is there a is there   I've seen some people saying that Muslims are traveling to other countries to spread Islam. Is that is that a concept in Islam?  

[01:12:51] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. So without without fear mongering, obviously, you know, jihad,   takes on so many forms.   Jihad   is   like whether you're trying to,   work your way up in a system within the country that you're in, whether you're doing immigration,   jihad, whether you're having increasing the birth rates of your population.   That's also a form of jihad. And I'm honestly not trying to fear monger, but this is how the Islamic ideology, like, works. That there's there's jihad on various fronts. You know, it it I'm sure you're aware, Tomi, people do jihad, you know, using drugs as well. Chemical jihad. Chemical jihad. Economic  

[01:13:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

jihad. I spoke about this 2,004 man, a looting gang called Gambinos,   who who were pumping heroin to non Muslims. Exactly. It's aimed at non Muslims, and it's about the destruction of the non Muslims. Yeah. As chemical jihad. Exactly. So, yeah, I'm aware of it. I just want these people who are listening to you   who with your knowledge of,   and your life experience, because   can immigration be jihad?  

[01:13:53] Nuriyah Khan:

So the reason I say it could is because   in the context of Islam,   it's Islam versus the non Islamic world always until you have  

[01:14:02] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

a Khalifa or, you know explain that to Pete. So house of war, house of God, you're talking about? Yes. Just explain what is the House of War? What's the House of God? What are the words for it? So Dar al Islam is the House of Islam. Dar al Harb is the House of War. Those 2 are in perpetual,  

[01:14:17] Nuriyah Khan:

I guess war,   loggerheads with each other because Islam is an ideology which aims for the complete,   I guess unification of a Muslim Ummah under a Caliphate.   And the West, the UK,   America, Israel, any non Islamic   country is obviously against that happening.   So there's levels of how you would try and make that a possibility and make that a reality.   And obviously, Islam and jihad. Jihad is one of the most, like, fundamental aspects of spreading Islam.   And then you break down onto a societal level. Is this personal jihad? Is it something you're doing in your personal life? Is it economic jihad? Is it a jihad via migration?   Is it jihad by birth rates?  

All of these factors come into play. And you see that with, like, the the, Dawa   the Dua gangs here and even, like,   some of the Islamic commentators. They're they're not even if they're speaking, if you read between the lines, they're they're not accepting the the law of the land here. They happily say,  

[01:15:17] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

you know, like, shame on the British police, shame on this, shame on that. They're not hiding the fact that Islam should dominate. Their way of life should dominate and be They're they're very open. Yeah. Exactly. How how aren't our politicians listening to them? Exactly. You when when we have House of War, House of God, just so people understand, that's not us that have chose those terms. That's the Islamic. That's Islamic. Yeah. So so Islamic's teachings is you have the house of war,   which is the non Islamic house, and the house of God, which is the Islamic house. Yeah. And I get this I go on to this point from the question of the grooming gang. Yeah. I'd like to get your opinion on it.   Because   the verses in the Quran that state when at war,   they can take non Muslim because I've had Muslim commentators I've debated with and they said, no. That's That's only when at war. Yeah? Well, if you got the house of war and house of God Yeah. And we're in the house of war, you are. And all a Muslim and maybe they don't. All a Muslim has to do to justify   his actions in Rochdale, Rotherham, or one of those cities. All he has to do to justify   amongst the community and family is we're at war.  

This is a non Muslim country. We do what we want. What's your what's your what's your view on the grooming scandal?  

[01:16:26] Nuriyah Khan:

And when did you become knowledgeable? When did you know about it? Honestly, because when when it was all happening, I was out of the country, and it's only   like recently since leaving Islam and then realizing the police failures because obviously I work in the domestic violence sector now. So violence against women and girls is, you know,   it really matters to me now in this country. And that was one I looked into because the rampant police failings, like the   the the things that these girls were told by the police when they were actually reporting it. Like, I read verbatim what the police's response were in terms of, like, Oh, that girl was a lost cause anyway. She's a druggie.   Or, This girl had a low bar for men. Or, This girl liked hanging around Asian men anyway. Like, she bought it on herself. Willing prostitute.  

Prostitute. Words like that that were used. I would say it's definitely one of the biggest,   police failings in our time to protect these women. And if you listen to the stories of of, the victim survivors of that, they actually say this is beyond just, like, you know, even, like, rape gangs and stuff. This is grooming, but they operate like terrorist style networks   to,   to to, like, carry this out. And I've always felt as a Muslim, even when I was a Muslim woman, I have always felt,   that   the outlook for Muslim men towards non Muslim men sorry, non Muslim women   it's it's shameful. It's already and I think the Quran allows for this as well because non Muslim women, technically according to Islam, are fair game for you,   in these situations. Because the Quranic verse about veiling,   actually says that tell your oh, oh, believing Muslims, tell your women to cover To differentiate. So that they are not molested or harassed. And who's not covered? The non Muslim women. So they can be harassed and molested. And this is exactly what I say even when, like I was talking about swathes of immigration   come in, legal immigration.  

The first   people they prey on   are these white women, so to speak, because they think, oh,   you know, that their culture allows for it. And I'm sorry to say but in their minds they think, oh, these are easier targets.  

[01:18:23] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And it's justified by their religion. I've searched for one case to try and find a Muslim woman wearing a hijab who's been grabbed in the street and raped or assaulted. I can't find any in the UK. Whereas, so every time we hear, every time we read about a woman being There was one this week again. A woman gets dragged off the street. She's raped. Yeah? By a Muslim.   It's I just say, well, how come   the only women that they're ever grabbing in the cell and then raping is non Muslim women? How come no muslim women and the muslims would argue, well, because our women aren't out at night. Our women aren't walking the streets.   Would you say it's more that   that with the with the outlook you've seen of their view of non Muslim women, have you personally seen that growing up from Muslim men? A negative view of Muslim of non Muslim women?  



[01:19:08] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. I see it even even within,   you know, like close knit circles of like, let's say the previous generation.   Knowing they could have girlfriends or whatever, but they would always have to marry   a Muslim woman. So every everything else before that is just kind of it's not taken with the same   severity and respect that, like, you know, a human should be given.   And I think there is some there is some   context, like, behind of the religion behind that. But I did look into it as well because I wondered, is was this predominantly their target? Because it seems so disproportionately, like, you know, white English girls that they target. Like, it's it's like almost they're preying on these vulnerable young women.   And then obviously, I read there was there was a few examples of Asian women also being   groomed and caught up in this. And Sikh women. And Sikh women. Exactly. Again, non Muslim. You're right. A 100%.  

But, yeah. Again,   the justifications   very, very few. Fewer Asian women and, again, they're non Muslim, but the justification is still there because,   white women would be their target predominantly. And they don't shy away from that. So if if we see those numbers being much, much higher, it's because even there's even hadiths which talks about, like, capturing sex slaves that have blonde   hair. So it's dark, Islamically.  

[01:20:22] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And there's verse the one verse in the Quran says that they're blameless. Yeah.   For taking sexual slaves, blameless.   It's a divine right in that state. The job you're doing now so since leaving Islam  

[01:20:34] Nuriyah Khan:

at 25, is that when you left? No. At 25, I started looking into it. I left by about 26, 27. Okay.  

[01:20:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

How's life changed?  

[01:20:46] Nuriyah Khan:

It's it's amazing   mentally, like the emancipation.   I would not change that for the world. I'm so glad. Like I know people leave Islam in their 40s 50s. I wish I'd left it sooner but I'm like okay 26 is not too bad. I still got a lot of life ahead of me. Why not, you know, bound by this rigid ideology?   And all of the bigotry and the hate and everything that comes with it.   But yeah, it's it impacts your life. It impacts it speaking out, it impacts your relationships.   As I was saying to you before, like even being in the UK, I've had to change my way of life a lot.   I keep my name off certain things. Like, you know, you're careful of the areas you   go and spend time in. You're careful of the people you hang out with. You have to take a lot of precautions, which in this day and age, it's sad that you still have to. But and it's sad that there's parts of London or the UK that are completely written off because, you know,   I was driving from the Lake District back to London one day and I passed through Bradford   and my radio I was listening to like KISS FM or something and the radio actually changed to Hajj FM by itself.  

And it was like an all around me, I just saw Muslims and I was really not dressed appropriately either. And I was like, shoot, one wrong turn here and I'm stuck. I could not wait to get out of there. But yeah, it it it's mad. How mad is it that as a woman,  

[01:22:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

you're a British woman   and you have to take precautions   or you're fearful   of precautions in Great Britain   because you changed your mind.   That's what it comes down to. You're a free thinker and you decided I don't believe in this,   I don't believe in this. Have you had any deference?  

[01:22:22] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. When I started speaking out,   I did.   And initially, like, when you're kind of a newbie in this world, the threat seems really, really like. Because you feel like you're taking on the likes of, you know ISIS, Jihadis, Taliban, extremists here. I sort of are. You are. You are indeed. You've picked a fight with with them. Like   I was watching a stand up for Brick A Javets and he's like yeah I can make fun of leprechauns. I'd never make fun of, terrorists though. I wouldn't go there. And I'm like yeah you know even like this is like picking a fight with   craziest of the crazies.  

So initially I got a few and that was gonna put me off and I thought, 'Should I even do this? Is it worth it?' And I remember reaching out to Mariam Namazi who was   the founder of Council of Exposons Britain And I just messaged her about my safety and I said, Look, I'm also in London. Do you think this is worth it? Do you think it's safe enough? And she honestly wrote back a very heartfelt email saying,   'Take your time, think about it, but if you can, by all means, like, use your voice.' And I was like, Yeah, I refuse to be   afraid.  

In like you're saying it's ridiculous. I refuse to to give in to that.  

[01:23:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Which is quite rare. Mhmm. Which figures about your character that   makes you   be refused to be afraid? Because my there's a lot of people out there who have the views we have or have the views I have anyway   about Islam, but they're afraid, and they're not Muslim. They're not even Muslim. So they're not as in danger as you sitting here talking about.   What what what why why do you think you're not afraid, and what message would you have to people who are afraid?  

[01:23:57] Nuriyah Khan:

I think I'm very lucky because my my also like haven't lost all my interpersonal relationships. So that helps. Would it be different if you had? Would it be different if your mom and dad were that strict that they would have outcast you and you'd have been fearful of them? I think I'd go harder. I think that would have   spurred me on to go harder. Yeah. I think I actually, I'm very I I like to be anyway quite, like, you know, balanced in my approach because I don't want whatever we've got, I don't wanna ruin a good thing and come too hard. And also I don't want to, like, have myself killed tomorrow. So,   I pick and choose what I say when I say it. But I think it is just Honestly, Tommy, once you've realized what it is, how dark Islam is,   that it's it can't be called a religion. It can't be just classified as some spiritual bunch of customs that you're doing between you and your God. It is it's literally like a political ideology.  

It it's absolutely to the detriment of women. It ruins children's lives. It ruins everyone's lives that it comes into contact with unless you succumb and bend to its will.   And if you realize something is that big of a con and that dangerous that generations of my family and people around me have spent their lives and died.   Saying the Shahada as their final words before they died, that makes me sick. They've not lived life to the fullest. So   I just think it's high time someone needs to speak and just generational change needs to happen. And if one person in a Muslim family breaks the fold, like I told you my siblings the knock on effect, hopefully we can save a generation. If this is women leaving Islam, they are in charge of the next generation. If they're having children, they'll raise them free of this Islamic mindset, and that's I think that's reason enough for me to speak and take this risk.  

[01:25:31] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

I I think if there wasn't the if it wasn't punishable by death, there wouldn't be an Islam. To if it wasn't punishable by death to leave,  

[01:25:38] Nuriyah Khan:

it would never have still be here. That would be so minute. We'd probably not have to worry about it. Be a problem. Yeah. Well, Flower, you do your thing there. There's so many people that fear.  

[01:25:46] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

They've used the fear so well. Yeah.   What would you say   the current situation of the UK? You're awake now to Islam. You understand what Islam is.   What do we do?   We've got 4,000,000   minimum   followers who had   adhered to Islam.   Lee Mohammed was perfect. Mhmm. What do we do?  

[01:26:11] Nuriyah Khan:

Well, I think it's high time we do something. Right? I think first thing is we acknowledge this problem. We start beating around the bush about whether this, you know, that this is an oppressed minority group that needs to be protected or protected outside of the Equality Act   or given to words like Islamophobia. We need to understand that   at some level what's been happening over the last 20 years, the level it's infiltrated society,   the chickens are now coming home to roost. So politicians have to grow,   more of a backbone.  

And we've got to tackle it. Like, the way that domestic violence is treated as,   like a national emergency.   Terrorism is treated as a national emergency. But, but, like,   radicalization   should be treated. I mean,   I was happy to hear my mom's a teacher and she was saying in school now, even in primary schools, they're telling teachers to look out for the early signs of radicalization. They're probably looking for bloody someone mentioning Tommy Robinson. Yeah.   Sure. Sure. Doing the car. That's the problem.  

[01:27:08] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

I'm in their programs. Yep. They drive through it at my daughter's school. Oh my god. Yeah. They rang up and said, look. We need to talk to you because in class this week, there's gonna be a class and sort of a subject of it. Oh, my days. I said, what are you talking about? And I know what you're gonna say. Yeah. For me, it's not true.  

[01:27:25] Nuriyah Khan:

Oh my gosh. Okay. So you  

[01:27:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

do you draw a difference between   I'd love to know Islam,   Islamism?  

[01:27:36] Nuriyah Khan:

Okay. This is this is this is a bit of a a gray area for some people. Yep. But for me, it's it's pretty simple. I I I don't draw a distinction. I think if you're a good Muslim,  

[01:27:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

your Islam should be Islamism. You're an Islamist. You're an Islamist. Mohammed was an Islamist. Yeah. Absolutely. I have this this is my problem for me. I have a big problem with this because I think that now,   I think that what we've done is create a word that allows the cowards   who aren't willing to talk about Islam,   then come down strong against Islamism. Mhmm. It's like   what everything you're talking about is the core structure of Islam. Mhmm. Not Exactly. But you don't wanna criticize Islam. You wanna like, it's okay now to be against Islamism.  

[01:28:15] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. Like political Islam. I I don't get it. Why why why do we have political Islam? Islam   is political. It's Yeah. Absolutely.  

[01:28:22] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Okay.   Because so many people are going down that or have gone down that line of pushing.  

[01:28:28] Nuriyah Khan:

Because most most Muslims are better than Islam. That's why they're they're chilling in their houses and, you know, they're they're they're not blowing up stuff.   The the Muslims who are actually practicing their religion you'll end up like Mohammed   or you should anyway that's that's what you should strive for as a Muslim man.  

[01:28:44] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Another little another underlying issue that I see coming, a big issue actually for us moving forward in the cut in this country,   Is as people get increasingly frustrated   with the problems from Islam,   they're blaming everyone.   Migrants,   anyone from an immigration background like yourself. Yeah. There will be a lot of comments. There are now.   Ever increasing, it's quite frustrating actually. But ever increasing,   against all migrants, what what message would you have to those people? About yourself, you're a great British citizen.   You've left Islam.  

You're speaking out. You're taking a risk.   But to those   to those people who say, you're not British.  

[01:29:33] Nuriyah Khan:

To them I would say,   I think   if your values align with, I guess, what this country stands for,   That that that that's being British in itself. Like what is being British? We can argue that till the cows come home. But I think if you are not actively working to   disrupt and break down this system   from within and you're willing to, you know, be this beautiful   cohesive, well, we shouldn't be cohesive, but a cosmopolitan multi multicultural society that we are. Obviously, the UK has been, Britain's been responsible for a lot of world history. It's tied into so many countries, historically speaking. It's it's it's political in a political sense, in a historical sense, the Commonwealth.   So we are a melting pot here in the UK.  

And I think there is anybody that's actively seeking to work against that. Sure, you can you can question their Britishness, but anybody who is kinda working here for the betterment of society to protect people, to safeguard our values, which I think are shared values,   I don't think we should isolate them or ostracize them because of, you know, I don't know, whether it's racist elements or an immigrant background or what have you.   And we shouldn't conflate, like, all illegal immigrants with, you know, a genuine, good immigrant experience. Somebody who's assimilated and somebody who has,   yeah, just just has,   you know, fit and well to this country and is giving back to this country. I think there's a lot of people who fit into that category, and they would proudly call themselves British.  



[01:31:00] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

I agree. I totally agree. Can I ask you   how do we? Islam gives a solution   to the LGBTQ   plus mafia. Yeah. The degeneracy   which we're currently seeing in society.   The I'm not talking about man and woman man and man fall in love or woman and woman fall in love. Yeah? Which   that's to do with man and man and woman and woman. I'm talking about the,   the sexualization of children, which has now become accustomed to the   the the rainbow flag. It's been to me it's been taken, hijacked, and stolen.   And it's a sexualization of children. Islam answers a lot of the problems around that. A lot of people are pushing to Islam because it's very strong in its values. There's lots of people converting to Islam. Andrew Tate, there's people who are going to Islam as they see as as a strong answer   to solve the degeneracy   and the problems that we as a we as a country face as well.  

What would you say to that to that?  

[01:31:57] Nuriyah Khan:

I say that's a car crash waiting to happen. Absolutely.   You you   Islam does not   Yeah. It it provides a framework,   sure,   of that kind of intense, you know, like you said, strong kind of framework which people like Andrew Tate and   still a bunch of other people gravitate towards because they think other ideologies or systems are weaker. For example, they say Christianity is too weak. At least Islam stands up for itself. Yep. But it's in no way a solution to and this is the thing. When people, really, really, you know, go towards Islam, they they use that. Rightly, as you said, they think that, oh, but their argument is look at the how degenerate the West is. Look at divorce rates. This is a dangerous argument that's going on in me because it's attracted a lot of people to Islam.   Absolutely. Absolutely dangerous argument because you you don't know you're getting into bed with another beast and a beast that's far, far, far uglier and will take away fundamental rights of yours that, you know, you want to hold sacrosanct. They're absolutely gone under Islam. So, yeah, it might seem like a solution because it's more aggressive and it's,   the the way it lays itself out, but it absolutely is not a solution. It would be chaos.  



[01:33:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Mind if I ask your views on the Israel Palestine conflict?   Yeah. Do you have a strong opinion on it?  

[01:33:11] Nuriyah Khan:

I have,   an opinion obviously.   I would   I would just like anybody else. Obviously hoping for a lasting peaceful solution.   But   again, leaving Islam,   in my journey of unlearning that I there was a time when I blindly,   was in Saudi Arabia and I blindly, you know, was chanting free Palestine and had the free Palestine scarf. And I was part of that entire movement. Movement. And to be honest, I didn't really know why. I just that's what the Muslims were doing and that's what Saudi Arabia's position was and that's what my parents' position was. Therefore, that was my position.   So having actually looked into the historical context of things a bit more, and undoing all the antisemitism that I naturally just had in me from being a Muslim.  

The Jews were to blame for a lot of things. I bought into so many conspiracies.   And it's so I feel so bad for even, like, ever having thought this. But, you know, all the conspiracies that you hear, the most far fetched things about Jews, a lot of Muslim families hold those to be true.   They control the media. They control the banks. They're, you know, they're responsible for everything that's gone wrong.   Again, even the popular   picturizations we see of them physically even, Muslims really, really, have a negative outlook on them. And again, this is completely from religion.  

[01:34:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

So I can't detach Regional land, which just has to do so that that there, your view the view you're brought up with of Jews,   was that to do with religion or land? Religion.  

[01:34:37] Nuriyah Khan:

So I think in this conflict, for me, it's very toxic because there's religion and land at play and it's from both sides.   So yeah. But again, for me,   having top, like, UK,   imams as well not outrightly condemn October 7th   just reinforced that like, Wow, you know, the antisemitism is so strong that you can't call   sheer blatant terrorism and sexual violence   against women what it is. And they're finding ways to Justify it. Yeah, justify it. It's like Cream sugar sugarcove it. Absolutely.   So yeah, I definitely do now take a more holistic approach and I think Israel definitely has a right to defend itself,   obviously in the best way possible to minimize casualties and, you know, safeguard innocent lives in Gaza. But Hamas is Hamas and they you read their charter, it's straight out of the Islamic textbook. Jews shouldn't exist. Israel shouldn't exist. We don't want peace until it's all, you know, all ours. Because they're all dead. Yeah.  



[01:35:33] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

What about   what about politically in the UK?   Do you see there being a political solution   to  

[01:35:41] Nuriyah Khan:

the problems we face? Do you look at any Who would you vote for in the next election? I'm confused, Naomi. I'm still like what is going on because, yeah. It's an ex Muslim. Firstly, when I got back here, I felt very politically homeless anyway.   And I come from my family's pretty much labor,   as expected.  

[01:35:59] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And then again, leaving Islam, I realized, wow, labor is really backed by the Muslim vote bank, and there's a reason. Though. No anymore. Exactly. But after bloody Gaza Exactly. The rebellion. And do you see how George Galloway jumped in to fill that void? And now that now that Muslim lad in Birmingham standing as the mayor, and they're setting up their own parties, and labor who have hugged and kissed them for the last 20 years   is realizing, oh, shit. Yes. Yes. About to lose the Muslim vote. Mhmm.  

[01:36:24] Nuriyah Khan:

Yeah. Sorry. I should have interrupted you then. Who who would you be voting for? Who would you vote for? So so for me again, I'm I'm pretty much undecided at this point. I'm gonna I'm gonna deliberate. But I can see that, you know, issues that people have with the Tories as well. I can see how the reform is coming in to fill that void again.   And, you know, they actually,   from what I've seen so far, at least acknowledge and aren't afraid to vocalize a problem with Islam or migration,   things like that in a more, you know, out there approach. So, yeah, we shall see. It's a big one coming up. But   even, like, local elections and, you know, Sadiq Khan, Hamza Yousef, all all these people in power, which I   deem to be soft   Islamists of a kind,   you've gotta work to,  

[01:37:07] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

God, Leanson lost his job over that comment.  

[01:37:11] Nuriyah Khan:

You did. You're right.   Yeah. You're right. You're right.   No but  

[01:37:17] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

London has changed under his watch. And It's fucked. It's absolutely fair. And there's no denying that. It's destroyed it. Absolutely. But he's smashing it in the polls. Yes. This should not be a message to the whole of Great Britain. You need to cotton on because once it once one of them are in, you ain't getting them out. Yeah. Once the demographic shifts that much,  

[01:37:34] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

it doesn't matter what they do. Yep. They'll use democracy to end democracy. Exactly.  

[01:37:39] Nuriyah Khan:

Exactly. The longer he stays in power, the more London will go to the dogs.  

[01:37:43] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

He ain't getting out of power. He's right. He's laughing, and he doesn't care either.   He doesn't is there any political figure   that you see or have seen in the UK that you think can lead the country?  

[01:37:58] Nuriyah Khan:

This is gonna be so controversial to so many people, but I actually used to,   really not like Nigel Farage at all.   And then I he was humanized for me a lot more when I saw him on I Must Love Get Me Out of Here.   And then   I do like,   when it comes to his viewpoints on honestly tackling,   the migration crisis and things like that, I think he's got a strong mind in terms of putting those things into practice. I think we're faffing around with what Rishi's trying to do. It's just like this whole He's not doing shit. Exactly. This is just this is just   it's a nightmare what's been happening.  

So I think we do need strong   leadership at the helm, but somebody who is, you know, has actually has got the guts to confront what we're dealing with here. I think even with,   you know, Sajid Jawa with the position he held as home secretary when he dealt with Shahmin Bigham in his mind, that was like a very, you know, that was utterly the right thing to do. And he says, If you'd seen what I had seen, you wouldn't question my decision whatsoever.   And whether you agree with him or not, I think that's the kind of leadership that we need, like, somebody who has a strong enough mind like that. But I can't really vouch for any of these people, wholeheartedly. So  

[01:39:07] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Okay. As now an ex Muslim   with 4,000,000 followers of Islam in the UK,   when people talk about reforming Islam or deradicalization,   what's your views on that?  

[01:39:19] Nuriyah Khan:

I think deradicalization   is a lot more,   realistic, a proposition than reform. I I'm not really,   keen on the reform Islam   camp just because I think practically it there's a lot of obstacles to that happening. So you've got, like, the reformers of Islam and the reformists.   And sure they can present their own interpretations and stuff but Islam   tells you, like in the words of Christopher Hitchens, he says it makes Islam makes like, grandiose claims for itself, which it does. So the Quran is the perfect word of God. It's not even got that wiggle room or leeway like the Bible does to be inspired. It is verbatim, the word of God. So how do you reform the word of God without destroying God himself or itself as a concept?   So Islam   doesn't really have that wiggle room because the whole thing will crumble if you try and change something that's been fixated from that long ago and is is entrenched in that 7th century, you know, Bedouin culture. But it tells you that it's an eternal,   timeless,   infallible,   immutable ideology.  

So there's no scope for reform there. There's scope for Muslims reforming,   in in terms of their behaviors and their attitudes and their mindset, which would also make them acknowledge that that means we've gotta, you know, at least say that that doesn't fit in this day and age or, you know, that's not applicable anymore. But I think deradicalization is process that we need to undertake in this country as, like, a national crisis. So If we should rename it, because when we talk about deradicalization,  

[01:40:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

what we're really talking about is helping people leave Islam Yeah. Understand Islam. Yeah. And yeah. Because when we like, if you don't want them to practice the core teachings of Islam and you're trying to demedicalize them, what you're them from is the core teachings of Islam.  

[01:40:59] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Yeah.  

[01:41:00] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

What about I'll just I'll I'll end this. I've had a fascinating chat on   to   a liberal   secularist,   someone who opposes me, doesn't like hearing me talk openly and give   words about Islam or the problems of it. What could you say to them? Because they're not convinced The problem I might have is I try and talk about these issues because of my history, because I've had a run an organization,   because I walk a certain way and talk a certain way. People don't want to accept what I'm saying. What would you say to them   about the dangers from not not understanding and not   actually addressing   the Islamic issue?  



[01:41:36] Nuriyah Khan:

Well, I wanna also start by apologizing to you, Tommy, as well because I believe the the headlines about you for for the longest time, and I you know?   But   and that that was like when I was younger. But having left Islam, when I saw you talk about Islam and see it for what it is in terms of a threat to this country,   I feel like sometimes actually, like, your Islamic knowledge is is pretty good as well. You can tell you've spoken to, you know, the Salafis, the Wahvis, the Shias, the Sunnis. You have you have more of an understanding than many Muslims do, I would say. But, yeah, when it comes to your criticism of Islam, not Muslims, Islam,   Like  

[01:42:12] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

About how they still can't separate them. Yeah. It's just how do we? Exactly. So no no no. It's absolutely  

[01:42:18] Nuriyah Khan:

on point. And I'm I'm grateful to you actually because I'm grateful we could even sit down and have this conversation because you are one of the few people that acknowledge   what the potential it has to do to this country. I think we're already past that threshold. We need to start pushing back now because we've reached that critical point.   So no, voices are And again, it's sad if this is like a class thing or whatever it is, you know, or trying to malign you for various reasons. But it doesn't mean that what you're saying on Islam is,   it's not applicable. It is absolutely applicable. I've heard your critiques.  

I've heard you listen to the apologist arguments as well and and challenged them back. And I would say as somebody who's grown up in the faith, been surrounded by it, lived in Saudi, left it, there's nothing about Islam that you're saying that is blown out of proportion. It is that much of a fundamental threat to our society, and it is that much of a dark, twisted ideology that you need to counter it constantly.  

[01:43:12] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Strong finish girl. Strong finish.   Where can anyone watching this wants to follow you, follow your story,  

[01:43:19] Nuriyah Khan:

follow follow your development, where can they do that? On YouTube I have a channel called Holy Humanist. You can just search my name as well, it will come up. And on x,   it's at nuria k is my Twitter x handle.  

[01:43:32] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Cool. Well, I've had a fascinating chat. I think we're at nearly 2 hours. I could probably just carry on talking about Islam going down  

[01:43:39] Nuriyah Khan:

on all the aspects, but, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was it was great talking. No. Cheers. And thank you for what you do  

[01:43:47] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

against Islam. Yeah. Thank you.   Thank you. If you've watched this, if you've liked it,   share it. We're still censored.   But I thank you for giving me the opportunity to sit and have these discussions.   Everyone these discussions might wake 1 person up, 2 people up. Our job is to challenge people's minds and make them think, and you made that possible. So thank  

[01:44:08] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

you. Carry on watching for more interesting guests. I'll talk to anyone. I'll debate anyone. I'll hear anyone's   story.   If you want to help me along that way,   it's not free. I need your support. If you can support my family,   that gives me my peace of mind. It means I can continue to do the work I do. I appreciate every bit of support as do my children, gives me the ability to fly them out here to see me so I can stay in constant contact with them. I'm the platform and I'm censored so I need you I need you to share this content, and make sure you stay tuned for upcoming weekly guests, interesting guests, exciting guests. I'm Tom Robson, and this has been my podcast   silenced.