Tommy Robinson

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Harry Miller is the passionate force behind Fair Cop. As a former police officer, Harry champions free speech and challenges overreach in policing thought crimes. His advocacy has led to significant legal victories, spotlighting the importance of preserving civil liberties in modern society.
Harry is a victim of the thought crime police, he faced them in court and won his case.

[00:00:10] Harry Miller:

It   was in 2019,   where   my future was sort of decided by for me when the police came knocking at our office door. In my sense of justice, I've always had a very keen sense of justice. I've always always had a very strong sense of wanting to   fight on behalf of the underdog.   There's been some concern by a a a third party that,   that the trans people in your place of work may not be safe. I said, look, George Orwell's 1984   is a dystopian novel. It is not a police how to manual.   The freedoms that we   have are worth fighting for, not just at a local level, but at a international level. And that's why we went and did it. I was assigned mammal at birth, but I identify as a fish. Don't miss species me motherfuckers.   So if your god is offended by a little bit of mockery or a little cartoon,   then screw your god because I'm not interested in a god like that. Somebody had a a non crime hate incident called against them because they were whistling Bob the Builder.  

And, the person over the wall who was Polish heard them and took it as a racist insult.  

[00:01:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Information covered up, censorship,   corruption, the mainstream media have proven itself   to be untrustworthy.   I'm here to give a platform for debate,   for truth, for open discussion.   I'm introducing you to my podcast,   Silenced with Tommy Robinson.  

[00:01:43] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Who exactly is Tommy Robinson or Steven gets to learn? With the English friendly   EDL.  

[00:01:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Action. The problem is this is running  

[00:01:54] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

English far right, lambophobic action. Since then, we've organized protests across the country, London, Manchester, Leeds, even in their 1,000 amount of fraudsters.   There is no such thing in this country   as a Muslim. Free, dummy,  

[00:02:07] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Robertson.   Welcome to my latest edition of my podcast, silenced. It's called silence because   the authorities continually want to silence us. To silence us, they bring in hate laws or different legislation.   You've all seen up in for a lot of court cases.   Lost them all.   I have the great pleasure of sitting down with the gentleman now who won a huge case   to compete against their attempts to curtail your free speech,   Harry Miller.  

[00:02:36] Harry Miller:

Thanks for having me. So That's right.   Thank you. Yeah. No. It it it it's a pleasure, Tommy. I say I've heard a lot about you. Never met you. Never met you before. And, one of the most interesting things about you, as far as I can tell, is that,   loads of people see you as the devil, but nobody can tell me what it is you've done. And I find that really, really interesting. So   my view is I like to operate without fear or favor because that's how the police should operate.   And I take everybody as I find them. And unless I'm sitting down with a criminal who is engaged in criminality   as we speak, I'll talk to anybody, mate. But that said, I think a lot of what you do is fantastic. Thank you, Harry. My ex wife will tell you what I've done. Do you wanna meet you?  



[00:03:17] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

She'll explain why I'm the devil.   Now, Harry, as I said, you won a huge high court case. I wanna get onto that.   So many times people get a victory against the establishment, which is what you had, or against the police in in such a way. But I wanna get on to first of all understanding just at the start because I've seen you. I've seen you on the news. I've listened to you. I've watched the work you've done, but I wanna know who you are. So first of all, Harry, where were you where did you get brought up? I'm I'm a Sheffield lad. Sheffield born and bred.  

[00:03:46] Harry Miller:

That's me. I'm from God's own country, South Yorkshire, Sheffield.   Absolutely love the place. Moved out when I was 18. Went to college in Ripon, North Yorkshire.   And then one way or another, ended up, in Lincolnshire in Humberside.   Back in the late, early early nineties,   I became a police officer in Humberside.   Served with them for   a a a few years.   Not   not long enough to reach any sort of rank. I was just a lowly PC, which is quite funny because when I when I go on the news and stuff, I've been I've been called everything from the superintendent of Scotland Yard to, you know, high flying officer from special branch. None of which is true. I was a lowly PC 372 from Humberside.  

[00:04:33] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

So that's my that's my sort of background. When you was growing up in Sheffield I'll just go through your life. I wanna go through your life. When you was growing up in Sheffield,   when you left school. Well, what was it like? What was you like at school?  

[00:04:43] Harry Miller:

I was very middle in at school. I was I was sort of you know, I'm naturally lazy, I think.   I like to take the course of least resistance   more often than not. I'd much rather be out, you know, whenever I have a school kid out playing or chasing girls   than I would be sort of getting down and studying for my a levels, which is why I ended up with very poor a level results. A c and 2 d's.   But all I needed was 2 2 e's in order to get into the College of Richmond and York St. John's at the time. So having having been aware that the   that the that the, the bar was so low, I promptly made sure that I achieved it.  

So that was that. So I I I had a you know, I came   from   a sort of an upper working class, lower middle class family in that my my my mother was an Avon lady   from Lancashire. My dad was,   an engineer mechanic who ended up being a salesman and then ended up   running a a depot for Volvo Planting Machinery   and then starting his own little business back in the 19 eighties.   So that's me. And I went to a very large a very large working class school.   I played rugby.   I enjoyed myself to an extent.   I wasn't I wasn't a standout anything really. I mean, I was I was a pretty good actor,   And I was a very poor rugby player but in a very in a very, very good team. A very good team.  

So,   pretty good actor. Did you do acting? I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was How did you charge? Yeah. Yeah. I was I was at school. We were very big on we were big on our school, Exfield Comprehensive.   We were very big on on, drama. We were very big on rugby, and I did I did both. So I was,   I was leading the boyfriend.   I,   I sang   and danced my way on stage on that. Yeah. Yeah. I was in I was in Charliesown. And then, I was Thomas and Becky's in Murder in the Cathedral. Okay. So that that that was that. But all of that You got any videos there? No. I haven't. All of all of that came at a cost of my academic   career, which was, you know, skin of the teeth   stuff. I didn't   put any effort in at all, really. I always figured that I was   bright   and that I could get I could get by   by winging it,   and making a very little amount of homework go a long, long way. So that was my sort of MO   for the very well, certainly until I was sort of in my late twenties, I suppose.  

When I was in my,   when I was sort of late twenties after I'd left the police, I decided that I wanted to make some money.   So I set up a a business,   buying and selling plant machinery, large large earthmoving equipment. Big diggers, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big Volvo diggers, excavators, all that sort of stuff. And then I I ended up buying a   very small failing company   at the port of Lymingham that unloaded,   bought cargoes   from ships. So I bought I bought that company. Ships?   Ship ships bringing in shipping containers full of merchandise and everything. No. No. No. No. It was bulk cargo. So not not stuff in containers. So it was things like,   coal, biomass Okay. Scrap,   grains.  

Loose loose flowing cargo   rather than cargo that you would put in a container. It was that it was that sort of thing. So I turned around this   very small, very failing company.   And   over the sort of 20 year period,   we ended up turning over   about 5,000,000 quid a year. I ended up employing about a 100 people. And   we were very, very successful. But our success   business wise was based on on importing coal, handling imported coal, all the coal that that powered the power stations. Now, obviously,   in around about 2015,   2016,   coal took a   well, it dropped off a cliff, in terms of its its usability and popularity with the with the new green laws, etcetera.  

So from 2016 onwards 20. Yeah. The the the the coal consumption in the UK for power stations,   fell up a cliff. And so the demand for our particular business started to wane. And it was it was at that point I thought, well, I don't particularly wanna get involved in in the eco   side of things, the green side of things.   We worked very we worked 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. That's just the way shipping   is. So I was ready for, I was ready for a break. You've done what? 20 years is this? 20 years? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 20 years. 20 years of yeah. Yeah. Exactly. 20 years of that. So,   I was ready for a a break and I was just wondering,   what to do. And it was in 2019,   where my future was sort of decided by for me when the police came knocking at our office door   looking for me because Do you run a big business? Police had turned up at the house. Yeah. Police have turned up at the business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Before? That well, as it happened, I was I was out at the time. I was at Tesco's doing a bit of shopping for the missus.  

And I got a phone call from,   the guy who was my managing director.   And he said, oh, h. We've had the police here. I said, alright. Now, obviously operating in large plant machinery,   there's any number of things that we could have done wrong that the police might want to have a word with us about. Generally speaking, traffic violations or possible accidents or or what have you.   So imagine my surprise,   when I rang the the police officer back.   A fellow called PC Gull. He introduced himself as PC Gull from the community liaison branch of homicide police, which is my old police force.   He said, are you Harry the owl of Twitter? I said Harry the owl? Yeah. I am actually. Owl because I'm a Sheffield Wednesday fan. Okay. Yeah. Are you Harry the owl? I said, yeah. I am. He said, alright. Well, there's been a complaint. I   said, right. What about? So, well,   you've you've tweeted some stuff and   there's been some concern by a a a third party that,   that the trans people in your place of work may not be safe.  



[00:10:56] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

So Did you have trans people in your place of work? Well, I I started laughing.  

[00:11:00] Harry Miller:

I said, mate, this is Inningham Dock. We don't have fucking trans people on Inningham Dock. We've barely got any gay people on Inningham Dock. This is like   backwards city. I said people still point when a airplane goes over. We haven't got any trans people. Let me get I'm off. I said, well, that's that's missing the point. I said, even if we had,   nobody's been discriminated   against by me. I said, I've been running this business since before   the Equality Act 2010 came into place,   And not once have I been challenged   on the basis of that act nor on any of the acts that preceded it. I said, I think you're talking absolute bollocks, mate.  

The trans people aren't safe at my place of work. He said, well, that's the complaint. And he said,   we've got, we've we've got we've got 30 tweets here that suggest that you're transphobic. And it's on that basis that we that the the the complaining party   says that you're a danger to the trans population. I said, right. Okay.   I said, so let's get down to brass tacks. I said, is anything that I've tweeted criminal?   And he said, no.   I said right. I said so what have I tweeted which   if I'd gone just that little bit further,   it would have crossed the line from non criminal   into criminal.  

And he said, well, there's a limerick.   I went, fucking limerick? Pam Ayers writes limericks. I don't write limericks. I don't know. You retweeted the limerick.   I said, oh, right. Okay. Limerick is a poem. Yeah. Limerick's just a shitty poem. Yeah. I remember it. It said, your breasts are made of silicon. Your vagina goes nowhere. And we can tell the difference even when you're not there. Your hormones are synthetic.   Now let's just cross this bridge.   What you have, you stupid man, is male privilege. It's not even a limerick.   It's it's a it's a shitty piece of feminist   doggerel Yeah. Really.  

But as for the sentiments It's a shitpost. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As for the as for the sentiments,   I I stand by them 100%.  

[00:13:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

A transfer A police officer's on the phone because you retweeted that. Yeah. Because I because I retweeted that. Well, then they said, there are 30  

[00:13:08] Harry Miller:

other. This is 1. This this is this is this is the this is the worst one. This is this is the one that if you'd gone one verse more,   then that would have that would have ended up into criminality.   And I said well   what criminality   do you have in mind?   And this is where it gets really odd. They said, oh, the murder of Steven Lawrence.   And I went,   Yeah. Exactly. I  

[00:13:31] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

said,   well, for for one thing Where did they get sent from that way? One thing, I think you'll find that Steven Lawrence is already dead,  

[00:13:38] Harry Miller:

So you missed the boat on that one.   And secondly, how the hell do you imagine we're gonna go from me retweeting   somebody else's limerick   to the murder of a black guy? How? Please tell me how. So, well, of course, it wouldn't be a black guy you were murdering. It would be a trans person that that that that has has been placed at danger.   This all struck me as absolutely   insane.   So,   again, I said, so let's just get this straight. I said,   I've not committed a criminal offense. He said, no. No suggestion that you have. I said, so   why are you why are you why are you on the phone? Why are we speaking? And he said, I need to check your thinking.  

Oh, boy. That guy don't know. And I said I said to him, I said,   let me get this straight. And he said, you're you're a police officer. Yeah. I've not done anything wrong. No. And you need to check my thinking. Yeah. I said, have you any idea   what that makes you?   He said, no. I said, look. George Orwell's 1984   is a dystopian novel. It is not a police how to manual.   And the reference just completely   straight over the set. Police play. So, again, he he went on and on and on. We had a conversation that lasted over 30:30:35   minutes.  

During which he told me that   even though I'd not committed a crime, I now have this thing against my name called a non crime hate incident, an n c h I.   Oh, well, that sounds pretty sinister. A non crime hate incident. What the hell is a non crime hate incident? So just put that on the shelf Did they? Did they? For for a minute.   And I said, why do you feel the need to contact me? And he said, because without the intervention, it will escalate.   Like,   but it won't escalate, will it? How can a limerick   escalate? What's what is a noncrime? If I commit if I keep committing noncrimes   over and over again, at what point are they gonna become crimes? Because   non crime time a1000, they still have non bloody crime, isn't it?  

And, you said, well, we're just we're just letting you know on on the,   you know, because we've had the the the the victim has put in a complaint. I said, what victim?   There is no victim.   Well, that's what we've got to call him, the victim.   And you're the suspect.   I said, the suspect of what?   The suspect of a noncrime.   Like,   this is just absolutely barking, mate. Completely barking.   And then he said to me he said this to me. He said, what you've got to understand, mister Miller? He said,   sometimes in the womb,   a female brain accidentally grows the wrong body parts, and that's what being trans is. And I went Who the fuck are you? I went, you have gotta be. You have got you cannot believe that. You cannot believe that. He said, oh, yeah. I've been on the course. I've  

[00:16:32] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

been   on  

[00:16:34] Harry Miller:

the diversity course. Yeah. Yeah. At at which at which point I laughed it in.   And, I said, well, you know, I'm I'm not accepting this. So, piss off and we'll see you.   So I complained to homicide police about this. And this is when it gets really, really, really quite sinister.   It turns out that the police were following   the 2014   hate crime operational guidance   as set out by the College of Police. Now the College of Policing is the body. It's a it's a quango.   What's quango mean? It it's a it's a arm's length government   pseudo government body that operates on behalf of the government Okay. Called the College of Policing. They set down the codes of practice. They set down the the operational procedures,   etcetera, etcetera, for the entirety of policing in England and Wales. And in 2014, they developed this thing called the hate crime guidance. Now, this was the result of   contemplating the McPherson report. The McPherson report, of course, was the report into the the the murder of Stephen Lawrence and the subsequent investigation   of of the murderers   and the failure Of the Yes. The the the failure of the police to prosecute. And what it said was that the police were institutionally   racist.  

Now, on that basis, what the College of Police decided to do was not look at the police, but look at the public.   So the police decided   the College of Policing decided   that certain speech that the public make,   even though it's noncriminal,   if it's critical   of trans ideology,   sexual orientation,   race, ethnicity,   religion,   then   regardless of evidence,   it must be must be recorded   as a non crime hate incident. And the guidance said it must be recorded   as a non crime hate incident,   even by a third party   making a complaint,   and even when there is no evidence of hate.  

So you can have a non crime hate incident   that doesn't involve either an incident   or a victim   or even any hate. But somebody's decided   that what you've said is ideologically   unsound and the police were being forced to record it against the individual.   So me tweeting,   retweeting somebody else's limerick.   Did the person who who wrote the limerick questioned? Do do you know? No. No. No. They they they didn't go they didn't get questioned at all. Now, what was interesting is I put in a subject access request to find out what the other 30,   things said in, and it took them 3 months for them to reveal that. Now, during that time during that time, I spent a lot of time worrying myself stupid. Particularly late at night, you know, when the lights are off, the house is quiet. I'm thinking,   did I get pissed up and say something really stupid? Did I get pissed up and do something? In the other 30 trees. And then You can tell you because you're thinking it's not My family and my family are saying, but but you must have said something. It's gotta be something more than that Limerick Harry. It's gotta be something more. I'm like,   I don't know. I I I don't think so because that's not the person I am. I don't go after individuals.  

The only time I go after individuals is when they're individuals of note,   activists. I'll go after them. Of course, I will. But I don't go after individuals. I never have done.   So 2, 3 months later, I eventually got back, the the stuff from the subject's access request.   And I couldn't I could not believe it.   One of the things that I'd said was,   I I was assigned mammal at birth, but I identify as a fish. Don't miss species me motherfuckers.   So this was this was viewed as hate speech, which   which without intervention was going to lead,   to genocide. In another instance, I'd said quite simply, Sheffield women know the difference between lads and lasses.  

This was classed as hate speech.   In another case, I remember I remember it to this day. It was one Saturday afternoon, and I was watching Gillette Soccer Saturday, the football results coming in. And I'd also noticed as I was scrolling that there was a Sarah Brightman concert on on Sky Arts.   And so I was flicking between the 2 and I realized that this wasn't particularly manly on me. It wasn't doing my sort of footballing credentials any good at all. So I just did a tweet where I put,   switching between Sarah Brightman and, and the football. Proof positive that I'm genderqueer.   That's all I thought. It was a skit on myself. Yeah. This was classed as as hate speech.  

So we decided   that this was   this was absurd.   We also realized it was dangerous because   the police said   that they would reveal a non crime hate instance. They would keep them for 6 years check. And they would reveal them on an enhanced DBS check.   So that an enhanced DBS check is it's it's when you apply for a job that involves   some form of vulnerable   Children.   Children, students. Do you want to foster a child? Yeah. Anything like that. Now the chief constable   for 6 years, could   reveal your non crime hate incident  

[00:21:47] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

to a potential employer. When they say reveal, what would it say? Well, that's interesting. That's interesting. The answer is because I've got I'm not gonna say that you made that little joke about ceremonies. No. No. What it says, I've got them. I've I've got it. I've I've got it. Okay.  

[00:21:58] Harry Miller:

For a start, it says crime report.   Not non crime report. It says crime report. Oh, so you requested and you've got all these. Yeah. I've got it. It says crime report. Then it says victim,   who the victim is. And then that, of course, was redacted.   Then it says suspect, my name in huge capitals with my address. As a suspect? Yeah. As the suspect. And then it says crime,   and then it says trans hate.   Okay. And then down in the t and c's right at the very bottom,   it say   it it it it says categorization.   Crime, non crime.   Now hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. If you're an employer   and you and that lands on your desk, you're not gonna read the small print. You're gonna see crime report, Harry Miller, suspect, hate, and you're gonna throw my application   in the bin.  

So that that was that. Then I did some research with the the Daily Telegraph,   And we discovered that by 2019 between 2014   and 2019,   2014 was being when they enacted this hate crime guidance.   2019 was when I I I, you know, uncovered it all. There have been a 140,000   people   with non crime hate instance against the name. A 140,000   people. That included So as police officers taking up their time, look with your case, on a 145 1,000 of instance of bullshit. Yeah. That included   my cofounder of Fair Corp, Sarah Fillmore, the family law barrister,   who'd done a tweet that said, my cat's a Methodist.  

And somebody had recorded that as a non crime hate incident,   because, get this,   by comparing Methodists   to cats,   you suggest that like cats,   Methodists   jump into other people's gardens and shit and piss on the cabbages.   Seriously.   Seriously. They recorded a non crime hate incident against Sarah Filmore because she said my cat's a Methodist. What was her job? She's family law barrister. Wow. Family law barrister. Other people, somebody had an a noncrime hate incident, called against them because they were whistling Bob the Builder.   And, the person over the wall who was Polish heard them and took it as a racist insult.  



[00:24:09] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Oh, so sucks. No. Woah. Yeah. So this is this is how me all you. What do I mean non crime agents I've got? Yeah. Exactly.  

[00:24:18] Harry Miller:

Now Put me a 130,000.   And the plea and there was no the police have no discretion. None at all. Because it said that if if the police questioned They have  

[00:24:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

to question everyone. So had had your cofounder, Sarah, have she been questioned? Did she was she aware of this? Yes. She was. She was she was aware of it only because she put in a subject access. Other than that, she wouldn't have been aware of it. She wouldn't have been aware of it. No. Which is sinister. Wow. So they're doing this against There'll be a 100,000 people who've got these who don't even know they've got them. Some will know. I like I knew. Yeah. Some won't know. Yeah. So they they will just they will just wonder,  

[00:24:47] Harry Miller:

why did I not get that job? Why did I not get that promotion? Why can't I do that? Yeah. Why can't I do that? Well, you made a political comment. You made a political comment. Joke. Yeah. Wow. That that's that's ex that's exactly it. So we realized this. Now, as I say,   the the guidance said that if a police officer questions the validity   of a complaint   and says, really?   That itself becomes a secondary hate incident committed by the police. Because it is the job of the police to believe the perception of the victim.  

[00:25:18] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Regardless So the police have to go through it. The police have to go through it. So the wording of that legislation is to force the police into log in these hate crimes. This is forcing absolute nonsense. Why?  

[00:25:29] Harry Miller:

Why do they want all these things logged? Well, I think it serves a political agenda. Because if you if you can show that there is increased hatred towards one of your   favored groups,   be it the trans group, a group defined by their ethnicity,   or what have you, then you can then you can afford them special protection and special measures. You can you can you can give them more protection than that you would give. Protection from criticism? Yeah. Protection from mockery?   Yes. Exactly. Because what's happened is   the Equality Act was designed in 2010, I think, with good intent   with good intention. It was to prevent   positive and negative positive and,   and passive   discrimination   against   people with certain immutable   characteristics.  

What's happened is we've gone from protecting the person with the characteristic from discrimination to   certainly in the case of trans ideology   and Muslim ideology   to protecting the ideology itself.   So it's no longer enough   that we don't discriminate against a trans person.   Now what we must not do is criticize trans ideology.   And it's no good   any longer that we don't discriminate against the Muslim.   It's getting to the point where we must not criticize   the religion   Islam   either. That's what's happened. There's been an anthropomorphism   from the person protecting the person, and that's that sound to protecting the idea   of that person. And once you start protecting ideas and ideologies,   then I think you're in deep, deep trouble. So that's the reason that they did it. Now, what else is interesting about the 2014 guidance is this.  

It says a decrease   in hate crime is not an appropriate target because it may lead to the demotivation   of officers.   Hold on a  

[00:27:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

minute. Just just what? They don't wanna get rid of the hate crime. No.  

[00:27:31] Harry Miller:

They wanna continue finding hate crime. Yes. They're they're searching hate crime. They're looking for hate crime. In order to I would say they're generating.   I think they are generating   hate crime. I was I I I infiltrated,   in January or February of this year.   Staffordshire Police Headquarters, they foolishly put out a call for local hate crime champions   to go to a hate crime champions training  

[00:27:55] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

day. So This is a police calling for what's a hate crime champion? Well, exactly. These these are people who are supposed to be trained  

[00:28:01] Harry Miller:

to detect hate in the community in order to combat hate, report people, snitch on people. They get paid? I have no idea. I don't think they get paid. No. I've training people to go out and be their little ears within the community   to feedback anyone who makes a shit joke. Yeah. Exactly. So I went on to I went on to the straight day. They didn't know who I was. Even though I gave them my real name, they just it just hadn't clicked.   And they had no idea what a hate crime was.   They they seem to think that a hate crime was not being vocal   about social justice.  

So if you were silent about black lives matter, for instance,   then that itself   was a hate crime.  

[00:28:41] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

So if you weren't supporting the ideology Yeah. If you're not supporting the ideology to join the ideology, you're   you're in the middle of yeah.  

[00:28:49] Harry Miller:

At at one point, they they taught us that there I think it was a 100 and a 150   different types of unconscious bias, all of which are flow are result of flawed thinking.   I put my hand up at this point. I said, well, surely,   some unconscious bias is a good thing, isn't it? I said, well, what do you mean, Harry? I said, well, let's take let's take for instance, there's a woman.   At night, she's walking down the street,   and she hears footsteps behind her. And her unconscious bias   tells her that those footsteps are male.   So as a result of that unconscious bias,   she takes precautionary   steps to get herself out of harm's way. I said, surely that is unconscious bias working in that woman's favor.  

They said,   well, let's just turn the picture. Let's just let's just say that there was a black person behind her, and she'd taken those steps. That wouldn't be right, would it? Said, but it wasn't a black person. That's the only reason why doesn't make a difference. I said, this is absolute this is absolute nonsense.   Well, they weren't having it. They weren't having it at all. So we the police are training people to find hate within the community.   Cheshire Police,   last year, they appointed the Rainbow Cafe as a hate crime reporting center.   I got the training details for that through, an FOI.  



[00:30:10] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

And it includes What's an FOI? A freedom of information. Okay. So to look, what what's the Rainbow Cafe?  

[00:30:15] Harry Miller:

The rainbow cafe is a it's a cafe that supports,   trans and gay ex it's called it's in Cheshire. Okay. It's on the high street in Cheshire. Cafe. Yeah. Normal cafe. It's normal cafe.   Yeah. So stuff Cheshire Police made a big song of dance about how they'd appointed,   the Rainbow Cafe as a hate crime reporting center and have given them the appropriate training.   Now part of that training is this,   that ignoring somebody is a hate crime.   What? I beg your pardon.   Ignoring somebody is how is ignoring somebody a hate crime? In what possible world is ignoring somebody   a hate crime? They're looking   for hate where it doesn't exist. This is the equivalent of the religious nutters who find Jesus in a slice of toast. They're looking for hate absolutely   everywhere.  

They're looking for everywhere.   We go back to my friend, Sarah Fillmore. My cats are Methodist. Hate. It's hate.   They're looking for hate everywhere. And the reason they're doing it is so that they can justify   putting resources   on behalf   of politically favored groups and resisting   Pushing ideologies and and Pushing yeah. Pushing back against ideologies Countering ideas. Against that. Yes. That's the only reason for it. That is the only reason for it. Now when I was at the when I was at this the Staffordshire,   hate crime champions course, the hate crime lead who was, I think, was a chief inspector came in. We've been looking at hate crime statistics over the last sort of 10 years. And there's a there's a general trend upwards.  

And I suggested that that part of that, at least, was down to better reporting.   And he said, yes. Yes. We I acknowledge it is partly down to better reporting. But then he made the astonishing claim   that only that they think that only 12%   of of actual hate crimes are reported,   which means that there are millions of hate crimes every bloody day if you believe if you believe it.   It's not true.   It's simply not true, Tommy. North Yorkshire police on their website Who said this? This this was the this was the chief inspector,   hate crime community lead on the Staffordshire hate crime champions course. League. Now then,   North Yorkshire Police, we uncovered.  

They've got on their website   sorry, on their Twitch feed,   a claim that says 1 in 12 trans women are murdered.   No. They're not.   If there are a quarter of a 1000000 trans women in the UK, which is probably about right Is that what they're saying? Quarter million. There's about quarter million. There have been 2 murders in 10 years. 2 murders in 10 years.   Not 1 in 12.   So they are they are they are straight up lying. They are manipulating the statistics   for political   gain.   Avon and Somerset on their website site, they claim that they did a survey.   And   what what was it?  

14%   of people personally   personally know a trans person who's been murdered.   Again, not possible.   Not remotely possible given there's only been 2 trans murders in the last 10 years. So what are the police doing?   The police are looking to uphold   certain ideologies   and they're looking to find an excuse   to go in hard against other ideologies.   That's what's happening.  

[00:33:37] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Can you can can can we can we just rewind? Can we rewind back to   the police and this investigation to you Yep. And where that went?  

[00:33:48] Harry Miller:

Yeah. So okay. Okay. Yeah. So what we did was we we told them to remove   my non crime hate incident from my record. I said I will not be part of a statistic. No. You're you're running a business as well. So Yeah. How'd you been  

[00:33:59] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

what age was you this saw this in 2009? I was 53,  

[00:34:03] Harry Miller:

54.   How'd you been arrested before?   No. I'm not being arrested. I wasn't arrested on this occasion. This is the thing that I've been arrested for.  

[00:34:10] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Trying. About being involved in criminality or or or I've never been I've never been even close   to criminality. You get to age of 53. You've had a successful life. You run your own successful business.  

[00:34:19] Harry Miller:

And your first interaction with the police is for a few tweets. Yeah. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And then I I guess that shocked you. Well, it it shocked me, and it also struck my sense of it struck my sense of of of of justice.   My my sense of justice. I've always had a very keen sense of justice. I've also always had a very strong sense of wanting to   fight on behalf of the underdog. Always. That's why I'm Sheffield Wednesday fan for God's sake. You know what I mean? It's like I've always I've always identified   without. Yeah. Harry Howe. I've always identified with the with the underdog. And one of the things I hate is where people abuse and misuse their power,   against people who don't have anything like the resources   that the powerful have got.  

So when when they visited when they visited me,   I was in that unique position of, a, I got a little bit of money. So I wasn't   I wasn't worried. I wasn't too worried about the financial implications. I had no   boss to tell me.   In fact, they said to me, he said, well, Harry, you may not commit criminal offense, but what would happen if your HR department discovered that you were critiquing these things? And I said, I am my fucking HR department, you idiot.   But how many people aren't? Yeah. Exactly. This is the thing. This is what That's the point. Point. That's exactly what If a police just rings up someone else who's talking, that person ain't ever talking again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what what what we said, I got together with a very good very good list of Paul Conrad of Sinclair Law.   We got a good, we got a good QC and we said, look. What's happening here is that police act the the police are   are acting in such a way that it's creating a chilling effect   on free speech.  

It's creating a chilling effect on police speech. So homicide police said, look. All we're doing is follow following the national guidance.   So we said, okay. So who's published the national guidance? The College of Policing. So we said, right. We'll take them to court as well. So we applied to the high court for judicial review against the chief constable of homicide   and against the College of Policing. We had our hearing in, November   2019.  

[00:36:21] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

It's my do you mind if I ask to get to that stage, how much did it how much did you have to spend?  

[00:36:26] Harry Miller:

Did you Well, I did I did a crowd fund and we raised   we raised a 100 odd £1,000 and I had another 50 odd £1,000   pledged.   But if we'd lost   Let's pay their cost. Yeah. I think I would have been at the looked at the wrong end of quarter of a million.  

[00:36:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

The only reason I make this point is you were in a position to challenge them. Yeah. There's a 140,000   other people on this list Yeah. Who haven't been able to challenge them. And if they wanted to, this is the cost it would've cost. Yeah. That's So to get justice, which is where you've took it to, you've gone you've gone in a place where no one else has gone on this issue   to to to overturn it. But I just wanna just get that point to understand  

[00:37:02] Harry Miller:

the question. My my my my barrister made it very clear from the beginning. He said, Harry,   justice justice is like the Savoy.   It's open to everyone.   Meaning, yes, the doors are open to everyone. But once you're inside, it's fucking expensive.   Did they advise you against you? That's just the ways no. No. They didn't because,   I said, 1, I will   don't worry about the cost. I'll worry about the cost. 1, I'll get a crowd fund.   So that will that will mitigate any losses.   2,   if I had to remortgage my house,   then I would have done so. I would have found the money one way or another. Yeah. You were pissed off with them. But but but   overarching all of that was   this cannot stand. Yeah. Like, they cannot win. We cannot have we cannot have a government   quango department called the College of Policing,   who have got a carte blanche   duty   to go into   people's homes,   people's social media to check their thinking. Because, of course, that's what they said to me in the first place. We're here to check your thinking. It cannot be right. It can regardless of the cost, I've got to fight this. Because I'll look I'll look back at,   our forefathers and   as recently as the second world war.  

You know, a lot of brave men   lost their lives in the 2nd World War. And those that didn't lose their lives lost their hearing, lost their sight, lost limbs.   It was terrible. It was a terrible, terrible 6 years. Now the interesting thing is we didn't need to fight that war.   We could've we could've appeased Hitler, and Hitler would've left us alone. We went to war in Europe because it was the right thing to do, because we recognize   that the freedoms that we have   are worth fighting for, not just at a local level, but at a international   level. And that's why we went and did it. So I thought, you know what? I wanna be in the tradition of those great men and women who fought in that war and previous wars.  

What is the risk to me? I'm not gonna lose an arm. I'm not gonna lose a leg. I'm not gonna lose my life. I may lose money. I may lose a load of money. I may have some sleep besides.   But if I want to be in that great tradition,   I've got to fight this. I don't have a choice. It's as simple as that. I will fight it. So we fought.   When the ruling came,   February February 14, 2020,   it was an interesting ruling because   the the high court said   that homicide police   had acted like the stars in the checkered and the gestapo.  

[00:39:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

That is They actually  

[00:39:37] Harry Miller:

the the high court judge actually used that language. Used that language. Yeah. It's it's in the written judgment. They compared homicide police to the 3 worst. Yeah. The 3 worst the 3 worst police forces of recent European history. The Stasi, the Cheka, and the Gestapo.   Okay.   So if they ruled entirely my favorite on that one. But they ruled against me in terms of the College of Policing and the guidance. They said that in effect,   the guidance was sound,   but following the guidance   made you like the the charging the stars of the checkered and and and the gestapo. That's alright. So we said, well, that's just illogical.   That can't be it cannot be that   that the guidance is sound, but following it   is not sound. That can't be right. Now what I think happened, Tommy, was this. I think the high court judge bottled it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think he gave me a massive win   filled with this great rhetoric   about homicide police in the hope that I would go, thank you very much. That'll do me, and we'll leave we'll leave the government alone.  

But they they   they misjudged me. It was never homicide that I was really after. Oh, is that So as I was who's making the It was the national guidance that I was after. And who's Always does so we we went to the national guidance? Who's behind the national guidance? Well, it it it yeah. Yeah. So we took them we took them. We went back to court. We went to the court of appeal.   They heard they heard our case   in, 2021. Can I ask when you won that first part but not the second part, would they have awarded you all costs? It was split. It was split. Okay. Yeah. So you didn't lose half the money that you spent at that point. Yeah. So it was all held it was all held in advance. No no money changed hands as it were at that point. No.   So we went back to the court of appeal.  

We were in front of 3 very, very senior judges,   and we won. We got the College of Police guidance   struck down, struck down as being unlawful. Now that prompted   in the college of policing and in the government. So This is massive news. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the time this was Salila Braverman, who was very much very much on our side,   she came out very early on and said that,   the College of Policing needed to get their house in order. In order to encourage them to do that, she issued new statutory guidance  

[00:41:46] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

around, around freedom of speech. What was her position at that time then, Swilla Braveman? So Swilla Braveman's position was that she What was her position in government?   She was home secretary. At that time, she she was home secretary. Okay. So she come out against policing? Yep. She she knew statutory guidance that protected,  

[00:42:02] Harry Miller:

that protected our free speech and limited,   what the police could do. The College of Policing,   then followed suit a few months later and issued new,   new guidance to all police forces, which limits   the ability of the police to come and check our thinking, to record so called non crime hate incidents against us when there is no evidence whatsoever of a crime.   That all is fantastic news. It's great news. Yippee. You know, now can I go home and just lead a life of leisure? No chance. Because it seems that the police haven't got the memo.   The police continue   to harass people based on their political views. As recently   as this year, I don't know whether you came across the the the case of the the Newcastle United fan, the lesbian. Who's lost her job? She was she's been banned from football for 3 years. So that's my case. Yeah. Yeah. That's my case. Yeah. So what happened there was, Are you representing her? Yeah. Yeah. You supporting her? I'm I'm representing her. Okay. Go on. Yeah. Go on. Tell me. So what happened there was,   I I I just got back from Australia to my daughter's   my daughter's wedding. This was November.  

Got a phone call. There's a lesbian in trouble from Newcastle. I rang her up. Well, just just before you so after this, just so we can understand why someone's ringing you up, when you won this case, you've gone and set up an organization to help people who are under attack like this? Oh, yeah. No. Be actually, before I before I won the case, I set up an organization called Fair Cop. That's at we are Fair Cop on Twitter. Which is? What what we do is we challenge. We exist to challenge police forces who get over enthusiastic   about,  

[00:43:32] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

policing people's speech. So upset of what happened to you, you then decided let's defend others? Okay. So you set up your own organization. You've gone away. Someone's contacted your organization, the city. Yeah. Yeah. Contact my organization. So what what happened there was that the police had been around and said,  

[00:43:47] Harry Miller:

we've had a complaint about your social media.   You need to come in tomorrow for a voluntary interview under caution.   I said, well, what is it what is it that I've said? And what she'd said was,   on Twitter, this is your daily reminder that trans women are men. That's it. It's what she'd said. That's what she'd   said. So she got hold of me. She gave me the the name Did you just say she was a lesbian? Yeah. Lesbian. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   I rang up the police officer concerned. And I said, look, I'm representing,   Lynn Lindsay Smith, the name of Blaine.  

I said before you, Harrison, have you considered the Miller ruling?   And so what's that? I said well, that's the ruling that that tells you how, and what you can and can't do with respect to policing people's free speech. No, I haven't. I said, have you considered the new statutory guidance issued by the home secretary?   No. So have you considered the new college of policing guidance?   No. So what do you do? I said right. So before you do any of that, what I'm gonna do, mister PC, is I'm gonna send you   all 3 of those things so that you can have a look at them and then decide whether you still think it's a good idea to harass this Newcastle United fan.  

What they did, they looked at the guidance   and said screw Harry Miller. And they went and threatened her with arrest that night. That night. Took her   in. Took her in under threat of arrest. Yeah. Because if you don't do your voluntary interview, we may gonna arrest. Yeah. We may. What they're asking is I want an interview next week. It's a play of words. Yeah. Yeah. It's a voluntary interview, but if you don't volunteer, we're gonna arrest you. But we may. That's not yeah. That's not a voluntary interview then, is it? That's an interview. That's a that's an interview that has been brought about by coercion.   So I said, right. Go into the voluntary interview   because if you go into voluntary interview, you can take your phone with you. You can record it. I'm in next week. She yeah. She recorded the whole thing.  

It was not one of the thing one of the things that they they accused her of was that in her bio, she'd said, I said, I'm LGB,   not LGBT.   Well, yes. She is. Yes. She's lesbian and gay. And they said, do you not think that could be offensive to some people? Like, well, why would I care?   I'm LGB. I'm not LGBT.   I'm LGB. Simple as that.   So that was the that's the criminal side of things. Now what we what we've said is that even the individual police officer has got it badly wrong. But we don't think it's the individual police officer's fault primarily.   What we say is   that police officer acted in the way that he did   as a result of the culture of that police force, Northumbria,   which is led by chief constable Vanessa Jardine,   who is an out and out trans rights activist.  

Absolute   fanatic.   And what we're saying is that the individual Oh, right. Of the tree is being pushed into the at the bottom of the tree He's under pressure. Is influenced by the top of the tree, the chief constable. So what we've said is we are looking to take the chief constable   to court   a judicial review   because we say it's her fault that the police officer did what he did. Now   then there's the Newcastle United element of it. So Newcastle  

[00:46:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

United banned her for 3 years. How? For for putting a comment outside on the Twitter? Yeah. Yeah. So fuck off. Yeah. Exactly.  

[00:46:58] Harry Miller:

So, you know, the whole thing around Dubai, owned by Saudi Arabia who  

[00:47:02] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Exactly. Execute homosexuals. Yes. That's exactly the same thing. Upset with her making a comment? Yes. That's exactly it. So they've banned it for 3 years because  

[00:47:10] Harry Miller:

somebody has reported   her to Newcastle United,   the diversity people, and said we don't feel safe with her in the family stand.   So they looked at her Twitter feed and banned it. But guess how they found it? Guess what else they did? They got hold of the Premier League, got advice from the Premier League. Who said yeah? Yep. Worse than that, the Premier League got hold of a Singaporean   spy agency   who they employed as a third party agent   to track her down,   find out her history, find out where she worked, find out her entire social media history, find out where she walked her dog, found out everything   about her and handed the file to the Premier League who handed it to Newcastle United.  



[00:47:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

For say for that one comment?  

[00:47:53] Harry Miller:

Yeah. Singapore,  

[00:47:55] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

the Premier League, and Newcastle United. Because the Premier League and their and their their anti racism thing, this is what I've spoke to someone else recently. They're searching for. Yeah. They're searching for hate crime. They're doing the same. Yeah. Searching for racism, searching for hate crime, trying to blow it all up. A problem that's not in football really at them anymore. Stop. And they're they're trying to make it, create it. That's it. They're generating it. So when you're looking at the sort of say no to racism thing, that was all to do with what went on within a football stadium. And and it was to do with racism. So social media. That's fine. Opinions. This is not about racism. It's about a a political topic, transideology.  

[00:48:27] Harry Miller:

And it's not happened inside the stadium. It's not football related  

[00:48:31] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

at all. Is she? Yeah. On that basis, they banned her for 3 years. That's outrageous. What the Newcastle   supporters should not be allowing it.  

[00:48:39] Harry Miller:

They shouldn't be allowing it. Is there a supporters' trust? Is there a You you you you you you got the nail on the head there, Tommy. This is all to do with   sports washing.   Because they are owned sports washing. What what what what because they are owned by a murderous   homophobic   regime in Saudi Arabia. A show. They want a show. We'll ban someone for the Yeah. We'll ban somebody. We'll pick on the lesbian   in England   to show how how how diverse a forward think we are. Yeah. That's what's happened. Is she still banned now? Are you going for a process to challenge the club? Is she going through a process? The Free Speech Union are Toby and the Free Speech Union are handling the football side of things. And Faircock, myself, we're handling the police side of things. Police side. Okay. So where's that going with her? With the with the police side of things? Well, we think that Are you going to say that? We're gonna go we're gonna we're gonna apply, I think, for a judicial review. We've got to meet our,   legal team.  

It's not it's not straightforward because what's happened is the the chief constable or we we thought complaining. The police,   the police and crimes commissioner for New for Northumbria   This girl's done nothing. She's lost kind of football. Her free her her feeling that she probably does. Absolute lunatic fan, mate. Her feed is just filled with the new class. United. Yeah. That's outrageous, man. Well, the PC the PCC has said, we've questioned the chief constable. The chief constable had nothing to do with the arrest, so it can't be her fault. Now hold on a minute. That's exactly what the mafia boss says. That's exactly what the godfather says.   When everybody got killed it can't have been it can't have been the mafia boss because he was he was on the golf course. Nothing to do with him. We're saying no. No. No. In this culture   in this culture,   the police know how to behave and how to carry out their boss' wishes   without direct instruction from the boss.  

So chief construe chief constable Vanessa Bar Jodding is operating   like a mob land boss. And the minion police constables  

[00:50:32] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

know what to do, but she's got deniability. Which is enforcing an ideology to prevent criticism of it. Yeah. What does that do? What tell us what does that do to what is this lady's name, Lindsay? Lindsay. Yeah. To everyone that knows Lindsay, on the level of free speech, her losing a her getting a free year ban, police interview, threatened with arrest,   what do you think it does to every single person that knows her or close to her in their exercise and their free speech in the future on this issue? Right. Well, first of all, people go, well, you must have said something.  

[00:51:02] Harry Miller:

People think you must have said something. Slave you her as a big You must have said something more than that. There must be more to this than meets the eye.   So that's the first thing. So you end up, even by people close to you, with a veil of suspicion. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   You then can't do the thing that you wanna do. The thing that you love,   which is go to your football match.   You then have to justify it to your partner   who says, why can't you just keep your mouth short? You know, don't you you seem to care more about this than you care about our love life and blah blah. Can you not see what it's doing to the family? So there's all this vast amounts of pressure. And then what happens is, of course, you get the thousands of trolls who come out and try and spear you every single day with things that you said 10 years ago or At the same time, though, is what it does to her.  

[00:51:46] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

What it does to everyone who know her? The point the point is, do they do this to one person like this? They come down and lock a ton of bricks.   Do you believe that installs fear in everyone else to just speak openly and honestly? Does it is this about curtailing free speech That's exactly on issues? Yes. It's about forcing the public. What it what it does, it creates what we call the chilling effect. So everybody,  

[00:52:07] Harry Miller:

everybody who's aware of it just stops and thinks before they speak.   So they they probably won't tell the joke   that they were going to tell. They probably won't give the opinion that they were going to give. They probably won't express the view   over the dinner table that they otherwise would have done. You take Rosie Kaye, the dancer.   Rose Rosie Kaye had a very successful,   dance,   choreography,   company.   She had a dance troupe round for dinner   1 night at her home. And about 2 in the morning, when the wine was flowing, she just happened to mention that she didn't believe that humans could change sex.   She was counseled from her own dance company the following day.  

Counseled from her own dance company the following the following day.   You've you've got Nick Buckley   in   in in Manchester. Manchester mayor? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He ran a very successful,   charity for the homeless. He just happened to come out and say that he thought that black lives matter was, was a Marxist movement. He was canceled from his own charity the following day. And it was a Marxist movement. Of course, it is. Of course, it is. And that's what that's what the police are doing. They are seeking to create   a chilling effect. An atmosphere of fear. An atmosphere of fear. So people don't fully know what it is they can and cannot say. They don't fully understand the rules about who can report what to whom.  

And so they take the easy way out and keep their mouth   shut. Just last week, following the,  

[00:53:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

the the Scottish hate crime, guidance that came into on the first Wasn't it? Hate crime law. Sorry. What's the first thing? The Scottish hate crime law and the one that you've managed to abolish in the guidance of the account.  

[00:53:46] Harry Miller:

Okay. So in in the UK, we've the we've   we have a long tradition   of free speech. We have a long tradition   of where where we are allowed to be offensive. In my ruling, mister justice Knowles,   reiterated,   the previous ruling that says a a a freedom   that does not include the right to be offensive   is not a freedom worth having.   Now, in Scotland, they've changed that. In Scotland, from the 1st April onwards,   if somebody takes offence because you happen to criticize   the person or the ideology of 1 of the protected one of the protected strands,   then you can be the subject of a criminal   investigation.  

In law, in this country, it happens Carries the idea and carries  

[00:54:34] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

5 year sentence? I'm not sure. Yeah. I think it does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 7 year maybe. Yeah. But the the other thing in Scotland is this, that they've breached the domestic dwelling defense.  

[00:54:44] Harry Miller:

In this country   in this country, what is said   within a family home is sacrotanct.   The state has no access to it whatsoever. In Scotland, that's changed. How?  

[00:54:56] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

In the legislation, what's it say? It says that anybody,  

[00:54:59] Harry Miller:

any any third party, regardless of where you are,   if they perceive what what you've said bridges their crime laws is offensive,   then you have committed a criminal offense and can be investigated. The fact that you said it in your own home over the dinner table with people who you thought were your friends is no defense.   They breached. They've come across the threshold.   And they are now they are now criminalizing people with threats.  

[00:55:24] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

How did they pass this? How how does a law like this pass in Scotland? Who decides? Is it just the the leader of the leader of the political party? It was it put to a vote in Scotland? Do you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,  

[00:55:34] Harry Miller:

like like most laws, Hollywood would've would've will have passed will have passed the law. Well, they do it because what happens is they generate a sense of fear. They generate massive   panic. Yeah. Hate crunch. Yeah. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Hate crunch. Yeah. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Going through the roof. Yeah. Look at the statistics. Hate is going through the roof. And by the way, this represents only 40% of the true amount of hate crime that there is out there. Hate crime is absolutely everywhere.  

[00:55:57] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Everywhere. And these are the particular groups who are vulnerable. You know? And then they'll make up just make up statistics. You know? 1 in 12 trans people at risk of murder. Do you know what statistics are? You know you know in these reported hate incidents, do you know how many of them are for racism against white people? How many of them are for Islamophobe   Islamophobic  

[00:56:14] Harry Miller:

Hate instances, how many of them are for transgenderism? Do you know the breakdown? No. I we we don't. We know that transgenderism is the lowest Okay. And, race and ethnicity are amongst the highest. Okay. And,   and disability   is on the is is on the increase.   But the the statistics are   the the non crime hate incidents are held at local rather than national. Say every individual So it's quite difficult. Now now one thing that is interesting   about this is remember I said earlier on in the podcast   that, the non crime hate incident report was   was came out to the McPherson report, which criticized the police and told the police to check check their thinking.  

What's interesting is we we did, freedom of information requests to all police forces   to find out how many non crime hate incidents had been recorded against their own police forces,   members of the police force. And that is interesting. Go on. The Metropolitan Police,   a big fat zero, not a single   one.   So they've not applied  

[00:57:23] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

I was assaulted by text messages. Yeah. I I was  

[00:57:26] Harry Miller:

let's say somebody says I was assaulted by a police officer on the basis of my race. They investigated and go, I was don't And they haven't tried to have non hate crime. So that should have automatically been recalled as non hate incident. Wasn't.  

[00:57:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Okay. It wasn't. It wasn't. So they're using the you use not in the public, but not on themselves. Yeah. They're using it on the public, but not on themselves. Clean  

[00:57:46] Harry Miller:

clean record. And all   all of the forces have done that. Some have recorded 2 or 3. Some have recorded 4 or 5 over a long period. But they're not using they're not recognizing the same for themselves as they are for the   race. I tell you what's a great idea. Let's make a problem. Let's check the public for their racism Rather than our institutional racism. Rather than us look at ourselves as a policeman. That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's   it's it's evil. It's evil, Tommy. It's it's selfish. It's evil, and it serves a political   agenda. It serves a political purpose. That's why I am so against police forces wearing   rainbow flags. That's why I'm so against the police marching,   marching in pride, for instance. Because   these things are political.  

They they show very clearly which side of a political   divide you are on. They show where your sympathies   lie politically. And our police force cannot, it cannot, it absolutely must not give any indication whatsoever   of its political allegiance. None.   Because how the hell can it? If it's policing you,   you want to know It's non biased. You want you want to know that the police are not looking at you as a as a white   nationalist supremacist   or what have you on the basis that, you know, that that's who you're associated with.   They need to be approaching you without fear and without favor. They need to be approaching everybody without fear and without favor. And you can't do that if you load up your uniforms and your cars and your press releases and your flags   with one side of a political debate. You simply can't do it. That's why confidence in the police is shot.  



[00:59:28] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

How many? So if a 140,000 hate incidents. Each one of those people That was by 2019. So we reckon now there's quarter of a 1000000. So say there's quarter of a1000000. Each one of the people involved like yourself, you've got a family of what? 4, 5? Yep. 6, 7? Or who know that? 4. So that's a 1000000 people. If all low, that's a 1000000 people directly affected by this bullshit legislation.   But then how well, on the chilling effect you talk about,   how much as we go   continue forward   are the results of these non hate crimes or this hate legislation.   How much of effect is it gonna have on the general public speaking freely?  



[01:00:04] Harry Miller:

Huge huge effect. Huge effect. Now let's just get down to brass tacks about definitions. Yep. If I ask you   or any sensible person,   what do you think the definition of hate is? Yeah. The I've always said this. What what does that even mean? Well, I'll tell you. Because they say you're a figure of hate. What does that mean? Right. I'll tell you. The the police, thankfully, they'd be fighting it for us. Go on. They say that hate   includes ill will,   ill feeling,   dislike, and antagonism.   Wait. What?   I can have ill will for whoever I like. I can dislike for whoever   I   like.  

And if you think about antagonism,   our entire judicial system is based on antagonism.   Because what we have in court, we have the side for the crown and the side for the defense, and they go at it. It's antagonistic.   In parliament,   we have an antagonistic   parliament. We have the government benches, and we have the opposition benches. And what's interesting is they're separated by what? Two sort lengths.   Two sword's lengths because   everybody   recognizes that this side hate that side. And what we can't do, we can't get rid of the hate. We've just gotta manage the hate. So we we so so we have a speaker who'll who's there sitting on his wall, like, shouting order order. It's Trump's fault. And we've got and we've got 2 sort lengths apart   because you cannot eradicate   antagonism   and hate. You can't do it. You cannot eradicate   ill will and ill feeling and dislike. You simply can't do it. These are natural human emotions. I go into a huge amount of trouble,   when back in I think it was 2020,   I noticed that the police were going real big on report hate for this, report hate for that, hate hate Every football stadium every football stadium over the town now is about this.  

And I put   I I put,   hate is an everyday human emotion   like love, envy, and jealousy.   The police   should only be interested in hate where hate spills over Into criminality. Actual criminal violence. We say no to criminality,   but we say hashtag say yes to hate. I put that,   and it got me into a lot of trouble. A lot of trouble. People going, you can't say that. You can't like, why not? Why not?   I am all for being antagonistic   because our our our civilization   depends upon it. Parliamentary   and judicially.   I could dislike who the hell I like for whatever reason I I like. So I'm gonna say yes to hate until you change the definition of hate into something that I can get on board with, like Incitement to hatred. We already have we already have a law which is about incitement to hatred. Yeah. So we've already got something that prevents the crime. Well, don't try and don't try and criminalize   a feeling.  

Don't try and criminalize   antagonism   and dislike.   You can't criminalize   that.   You can't because all that will happen is that is that you'll start picking on using it as the basis to pick on certain groups and ignore other groups. And protect other groups. And protect all them. And ignore them. Yeah. Protect them. And so that's why I that's why I say it. You know, I was very pleased, Tommy, actually, to find that, I'm I've made the cut in this year's hope not not hate Oh, have you? Thought. Yes. You did as well. Yeah. No. I mean, I mean, in the past, I've been in it only as a they knock around with people like Harry Miller. Well, now I've got my own section, which I'm absolutely thrilled about. Well, since it's a Harry. Yeah. Yeah. I've got my own section. So yay. These are a winner. Finally. Yeah. People should if anyone anyone out there, you ever wanna know who you should be listening to, just pick up Hope Not Hate's yearly report, and that will tell you who you should be listened to, basically.  

[01:03:44] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Yeah. I mean, who's fighting the best is in their When when Jacob Rees Mogg is He's making it as a radical   tool. Oh, for God's sake. Yeah. They messed up this year massive. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Because they named so many mainstream people. They did. So many mainstream politicians as figures of hate. Again, it's the word hate. It's just This is the thing, Tommy.  

[01:04:01] Harry Miller:

It will always eat itself.   They always go too far. Every single time. These radical lunatics,   they always go too far. They never know when enough is enough.   And so it's not enough that that you're a hater. I'm now a hater. Jacob Rees Mogg's a hater. Suella Braverman's a hater. And you say it's the only amount of time before Keir Starman becomes far right. Of course. I can't as far as they're concerned because never no. Enough is never enough.  

[01:04:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Do you think the likes of, Jacob Rees, Morgan have have now that now they're seeing that they're coming under these labels under attack? Do you think it makes them review   others that are under those labels and Well,  

[01:04:37] Harry Miller:

you would hope so, wouldn't you? You would hope so where where JK Rowling is seen as a far right fascist. Come on. And Graham Linehan.   I know. Graham Linehan, who's his left wing as they come politically,   he's now seen as a far right fascist. These labels mean absolutely nothing anymore. Absolutely   nothing. Nothing. I I was warned off doing,   Carl Benjamin's show. Low season. Carl's brilliant. For for for years. Because I was told, oh, you can't you can't knock around with him. He's far right.   And so I believed him, you know, for real liberal. Yeah. He is fucking liberal. He's great. Yeah. He is. He's very liberal. He's really smart. He's very, very smart. Yeah. He switched on.   He's great. And I've just stopped listening to people telling me who I can and can't talk to because I'm not gonna do the job of the police for them. Having gone this far with free speech, I'm not gonna now limit my limit who I speak to and chat to. Right? Until somebody could tell me what you have done that's so bloody evil, then I'm gonna talk to you. Told you. Speak to my ex wife. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Look. Just,  

[01:05:40] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

this this all happened in 2019   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When your business was coming to an end?  

[01:05:45] Harry Miller:

Yeah. Well, the the I I we we could've we could've we could've reinvented ourselves,   very easily. But I was just, you know, I was sort of 50 approaching 54th birthday.  

[01:05:55] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

I'm like, you know what? I wanna I wanna do something else, really. Would you say that this incident has been a defining moment in the direction of your life? Because sitting here now, we listen to you. You sound like you've gone down. You've looked at everything. You've researched everything. They've probably rattled the wrong cage by ringing your work. Well, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. It's not it's not. Look at this. You're good.  

[01:06:14] Harry Miller:

The wrong guy. Yeah. So don't don't don't don't don't thinking because they've done a 140,000. Nobody else has said anything. They've all just   saying that they they picked on the wrong guy. And, apparently   apparently, Quentin Tarantino was once asked, what did he wanna be when he grew up? And, his response was, you know, I always used to watch all the films and all those sort of all these people would come and they'd be picking on people. And then one day they came along and they picked on the wrong guy, and I want to be the wrong guy. And so we said, well, that's what happened with homicide police. They out of all the people in all the world, they picked on me, and I was definitely, most definitely the wrong guy because I was in that position where I think it's You can fight. Yeah. Yeah. I can fight. Fight. Yeah. I can fight. People aren't in that position. I've got the bollocks for it, mate. Yeah. Most people aren't. Yeah. I've got the, and I understand that. Yeah. That's why I think   if you can't fight, if you're in a position where you've got a mortgage and wife and kids, you're at the start of your care career rather than the end of it, then I I fully understand. In fact, I would encourage you to keep your head down. I really would. You know, put your pronouns in your bio if you want to. Sign on the dotted line. Do what you've got to do to survive.  

But   those of us who can   resist Now I'll just resist. Resist for you. Yeah. What you can do, if you can't resist, you can throw some money into a crowd fund. Support us. You can you can share you can you can share a few podcasts and bits and pieces around. You can you can sort of engage in passive resistance   until such time as it's your turn   to pick up, to pick up the banner and go charging into battle.   So so that's it. They they they picked on they picked on the wrong guy, Tommy, and they still they're still picking on the wrong guy,   because I still I get right in their faces all the time.  

And I put myself between people who were in people who were in trouble   with the police. I'll just stand between them and the police and say, come and get me. I mean, I did that with that the royal green jacket. I've talked to you about it down in Hampshire. Yeah. What happened in Hampshire?   When was this? This was 2 this was 2 years ago. We got a we got a phone call   from from a a a Royal Green Jacket veteran.   So 25 years with distinction in Ireland,   and and various other places.   And, the police knocked on his door once in the morning because he'd do you remember that that trans swastika that was going around?  

[01:08:31] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Yeah. The mixture of 2, which was to do with launch Fox, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So all he got all this this Royal Green jacket had done  

[01:08:37] Harry Miller:

was he put it on his Facebook page and put, what do we think of this? Discuss. That's all he put. So he asked a question? He asked a question. That was all.   So because he's x because he's ex ex army,   his house   is like Fort Knox, and there are video cameras everywhere. So when the police came knocking, all of it was just naturally recorded. And he sent the recording to me, and I couldn't believe what I saw. What did you say?   They they they said that, he committed he committed an offense. That was the first words out of his mouth. You've committed an offense. He said, have I come are you here because I've committed a crime or a non crime? He said, you've committed a crime.   Right. What's the crime? The swastika.  



[01:09:15] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Right. What's the answer? So right. Just people understand. This was a swastika put with the non binary sort of like rainbow new addition to their flag  

[01:09:23] Harry Miller:

blended into 2. Yeah. Yeah. To say that the 2 ideologies are crossing over. Yeah. Exactly. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. So he wasn't the originator of it. It's been knocking around for years years years. Lawrence Fox sort of popularized it a little bit because he retweeted it.   But anyway, it it What I watched on this video was a straight up shake down. They said to him, look, you've committed a crime and the choice is this.   We either take you to court and you end up with a criminal record   or you give us 60 quid   and we send you on a,   on a Diversey course. Yeah. Far cost. The trading course. Yeah. And he went, well, I don't think I've done anything. He said, oh, yeah. You've committed a crime.  

So hand over £60   and, we'll send you on   a course to get you Re education course. Re education course. Yeah. So he's asking a question. Yeah. So he said, look. Can I have a look? Can I have a bit of time to think about this? And they said yes. And they said, well, can you call back next Thursday about 5 o'clock? And you went there. So I was there with the film crew.   Oh, I love it. Lawrence Fox and the film crew. And at the at the at the appropriate  

[01:10:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

about me famous.  

[01:10:28] Harry Miller:

At the appropriate moment, we came bursting out of the kitchen. But then the police, they tell us tell us slowly. Yeah. So the police came. They they they sat this world green jacket down in his They just think it's him. Yeah. Yeah. They're going through it. And we're I'm in I'm in I'm I'm in the in the kitchen with Lawrence Fox and the cameraman, and we're listening. We're listening at all. We've got the camera set up all the rest of it. And we're we're we're waiting for that appropriate moment. So what we told him to do was say, look.   You know, you you because he'd mentioned my ruling the previous week. Who else? The green. Yeah, the royal green jacket. And they and they'd they'd said bizarrely well, that ruling doesn't apply unless you've got a letter.  

Like, what?   Makes no no sense at all. And he'd said, but I'm not the one that retweeted that actually. It was Lawrence Fox. They said we don't care. It's sure that the complaint is against.  

[01:11:17] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

So you probably find out who's made the complaint. Who's made this complaint? Do you know if you find out who made the complaint against you? No. No. Yeah. I did, Bill. That's that's another story. I was a lunatic from, from from the from the West Country. Okay.  

[01:11:29] Harry Miller:

No. So at the appropriate point, he said, you know last week when you said, that the Miller ruling didn't count and that Lawrence Fox didn't count? They went, yeah. Says, well, funny enough, we've got them here. So we came charging out we came charging out of the kitchen.   I've done I've done a,   a a a a a a letter for them to sign that where where they said, you know, we acknowledge that we have, we have infringed the rights and blah blah blah blah blah. I said,   I said, sign this. I said, and what I'm gonna do, I said, I'm either gonna sue sue your chief constable or you can give me £60 now. And I'll put it on the reef test. I'm gonna send you on a fair cop, reframe. For that, I'm gonna throw you some sandwiches. How about that? And they went, what? We're not doing that. I said, well,   that's it. That that that's the way it's gonna be. And, they said, no, we're not talking to you. This gentleman has gotta come in. I said, he's not coming in. He's not talking to you. That's the end of the bleeding story. End of story. He went, look,   if he doesn't come in, we're going to have to arrest him. I said, well, to arrest him? You're going to have to fucking arrest me then.  

They said, are you being serious? I said, yep, absolutely 100% serious. You better call for backup because you ain't man enough to do it. So they called for backup.   333 right vans turned up. We had a we had a stand up, all of it filmed, all of it filmed being live streamed on Facebook, and I'm just standing there like this. And it's funny, there's a picture of me with my eyes around that, and you can see the wrong guy. I'm not there. And at one point, I go I said, you big lad, you look like you've you've got the cahoonies to a recipe. Are you gonna be the one then? They wouldn't do it until there's nothing. Yeah. So eventually eventually, they they arrested me. Eventually, they arrested him. On what charges?   What charges were you arrested? They well, they arrested me for they all arrested for obstructing   obstructing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And they arrested him because he'd refused to give a voluntary in because he refused to give a voluntary in for you. They were using what was it? Section 127 of the communications act. Now they let they let him go really quite quickly because I think they realized We fucked up here. Yeah. We've we've we've we've streamed it. When you're live streaming this, how many people watched it?  



[01:13:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

I've because this plays a part on the I think several I think several million  

[01:13:31] Harry Miller:

watched it as we live streamed. Okay. Live streamed. But then we did a documentary about it. And then the following morning,   the police and crimes commissioner came out and roundly condemned our own chief constable.   And,   you know, we've successfully,   sued   the police. For the green jacket? Yeah. The royal green jacket, eastern and everything. And I did mine for wrongful arrest. And I did also I I I got them for armed robbery because what I said was that when they took my fingerprints and, and my DNA,   they did it under coercion.   Because I refused to give it to them without getting you know, know, I said I'm not gonna give it to you. And so, well, if you don't, we'll ping you down and pull out your chest hairs. And I okay. Well, I'll give it.  

So I said that, this was armed robbery,   in that they'd taken my property, my DNA,   under immediate threat of violence.   And that violence included the fact that they were armed. So that that means the definition of armed robbery. So I I sued him for that. And you won this Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I won. Yeah. So can we just the the point I want people to understand here is with the green jacket and him contacting you,  

[01:14:33] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

the average person doesn't have a contact like you. And the average person that they come around their house to in these incidents,   he hasn't done anything. He's asked a question. How many other people are there in this country like him who are facing the abuse of police power like this and intimidation from the police. Because, essentially, it wouldn't be intimidating for the average person coming in your house. We'll nick you. How many people they put on these stupid courses?  

[01:14:56] Harry Miller:

Millions. Yeah. Abs absolutely. All over the country.   Because we we have we have a system early in the past, we had a system of justice. A lot of call it habeas corpus.   You arrest you you arrest somebody because you have not absolute proof, but reasonable suspicion   that a crime has been committed and that that person has committed the crime. You then have a duty to get them as fast as possible in front of the magistrate.   That's that's the way British law works. Now,   and then on the balance not on the balance of probability,   beyond reasonable doubt   then dictates whether or not there's a conviction. Now the police don't like that system because it very often works against them. So what they're doing, they've developed an alternative system. It's called alternative justice.  

Rather than taking you to court, what they do is they just pronounce that you're guilty. They just say you're guilty of this,   and and the courts will find you guilty.   We'll save you the embarrassment. Sign on the dotted line here, which which says, I admit my guilt. We'll put you on a on a hateful list for the next 2 years. We'll send you on a course, and then you can thank us very much for doing that. And the average person who doesn't want the court case, doesn't want the media attention,  

[01:16:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

worried about their job, would probably just sign on that guideline. They would sign on that dotted line and go on the course. Yes. And then they've become a statistic that we when we see on the news, hate crimes are through the roof. Yes. That's what they mean. They're one of these pathetic little instances. Yeah. People people who have been coerced into signing some declaration that they are hateful.  

[01:16:23] Harry Miller:

It's like it it's like occurred during Mao's   China, during the cultural revolution,   where you were dragged in front of the crowd and you were made to recant   whatever it was, your your your previously held capitalistic non Maoist belief. It's exactly the same thing.   You you denounce yourself publicly.   Denounce yourself. And then the police say, you know, you've done yourself a favor. We're doing you a favor. We'll let you off.   That's it. That is they call it alternative justice. I call it no justice whatsoever.  

[01:16:53] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

So just understand then. So the green jacket lad, they've come in. They've took him down the police station. Took you down the police station.   And their charges have gone nowhere.   They didn't even charge you. They didn't even take you to court.   Is this when this went viral Look. Because what what I said to them, I did in the interview,  

[01:17:09] Harry Miller:

I said, I said, right. I'm gonna tell you now that the the offenses, the unlawful   the the obstruction of the police officer and the lawful execution of their duty. You are I said the police officer was not acting in any way lawfully. I said we do not have a situation where a person posting on Facebook and simply puts discuss   something.   There there is no possibility   that you were operating lawfully. And therefore, me stopping you arresting him, I wasn't obstructing a lawful engagement with a police officer. I was doing my duty as a citizen. Now fuck off.  

[01:17:40] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

To our statistic that I saw recently, you know, in a 12 month period, 800 people were arrested and prosecuted   for what they said on Facebook in Russia.   Nearly 4,000   were prosecuted in Great Britain in the same year. That was Constantine's,  

[01:17:54] Harry Miller:

observation, wasn't it? Yeah. In the podcast. Yeah. What does that what does that tell you?   Well, it tells us that we've been living under   a under a   left wing liberal   government   and police force,   I think for the last   20, 30 years. Well, certainly since 1997. You know, regardless of what color the the door of Downing Street is, we've been living under a Blairite   government   that is intent on,   in getting,   state involvement into every area of our lives. And the way that they're doing that is through the police. And the way they're doing that is by generating this thing called aid crime, which doesn't exist.   Which is really pushing   and blowing up everywhere. It's all about hate, stopping hate. We must stop hate. Yeah. If they really bother, why not why not why not have a, a a thing against envy?  

You know? Let's stop envy crimes because envy leads   to envy leads to   someone's Yeah. All sorts of or or or a jealousy. Yeah. Let's have let's have an anti jealousy campaign   because there are so many women murdered by, by jealous sources. But let's have an anti jealousy campaign. They don't have any of that, do they? They have this indefinable thing called hate crime. They can't justify it. They've no idea what success looks like. In fact, they don't want success. It's baked into it's baked into the guidance.   A reduction in hate crime must not be seen   as a legitimate target.  

Why? Why not? Can you imagine a murder squad where the target was not to reduce murders?   That'd be nonsensical. Everybody would say that's that's fixed. Or a robbery squad. They do. So we don't want to see a decrease in robbery. But with hate crime, they don't want to see a decrease in hate crime because that will rob them   of their political clout. Of the ideology as well. Yes. Of them That will rob them of their political   clout.   Because without the crime, they have no justification   for going after the thought.   And that's it. That's what that's what they're that's what they're doing. They're saying it all begins with a thought and speech. So if we can   nip the speech in the bud,   if we can nip people meeting together in the bud, then we can prevent the crime. But there's not a scrap of evidence. None. No. Do you think it's but do you think it is actually about that? Do you think it do you think it is about preventing the crime, or do you think it's about preventing criticism, preventing free speech? It it it is purely about And allowing certain ideologies which they've chosen to flourish in our society without criticism. Yeah. If it was about if it was if it was truly about crime, they would have approached it from a scientific basis, and they would have tested it. They would have tested its efficacy   and gone, oh, this is working. Let's have a bit more of this. And see that they'd see the crime that the hate crime figure is going down. But when the target is for them to go up, and that's the target for the hate crime figures to go up They're looking for it's got to be because they need the hate crime. That's why they're that's why they're training people in finding hate. That's why yeah. Yeah. There there's there's a sex shop in Glasgow, a sex shop in Glasgow that's been that's now been designated   as a hate crime reporting center.  

So   if you have an if you have an issue with,   I don't know,   police officers,   decorating their uniforms with dildos   during Glasgow pride,   you can go along to this, the the sex shop and report it as a homophobic hate crime. And they'll record it and tell the police the police will do something about it.   That's what it's all about. It's all about it's all about   But this is an attack. But this is an attack on this is an attack on conservatism.   It's an attack on orthodox   traditional   values, traditional   understanding.   Traditionally,  

[01:21:37] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

we all have to give a free reign free reign to degeneracy?  

[01:21:41] Harry Miller:

It's free reign to degeneracy.   It's it's a it's a free reign to favored   ideologies.   If you if you   trans ideology   and Islam Islamic ideology,   you can you can push that a long, long way before it elicits a police response.   A long, long way. I was I was stood at,   at a rally,   in just outside or in Westminster a year or so ago,   where trans rights activists were standing with, with with politicians   just saying the most horrendous things about those of us who believe that sex is binary.   That that men are men and women are women. And that you can't men can't become women and women can't become men. Now  

[01:22:28] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

you wouldn't you you couldn't have the same rally and and say the same things against them. Trans people. Yeah. You you no. You couldn't. Being arrested. No. No. You couldn't. You couldn't do that. The legislation is, one one side one-sided.  

[01:22:39] Harry Miller:

Yeah. And then let's let's take what happened in, in in Bradford.   Was it last year where   where the kid had dropped a copy of the Quran?  

[01:22:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

At Wakefield. Yeah. And then and then they had this mini Sharia tribunal.  

[01:22:53] Harry Miller:

Mini Sharia tribunal. Accented by a chief inspector. Nodding his head. Nodding his head. And his mere presence there was wrong. Nodding his head and making the poor mother  

[01:23:02] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

basically accuse of Let's understand. So people understand there was a there was an autistic child who at school dropped the Quran. When he dropped the Quran, there was death threats saying he desecrated the Quran. He received multiple death threats, evidenced death threats to murder him and kill him where the police took no action. They agreed to take no action against any of the threats against him. They held this little mini court trial. We've all the head of the police there, the mum begged all the Muslim community, please forgive my son for what he's done. It was like a Sharia tribunal where the the mother and the son were sat there, and she was she's obviously terrified for her son's safety in life. But the police legitimized it   by sitting in the meeting, and they also didn't follow through on the actual crimes. Yeah. The dropping the car wasn't a crime. The actual crimes are the threats to murder the boy that dropped the car. Yeah. Exactly. And this is the police showing fear and favor. This is the police showing very clear  

[01:23:51] Harry Miller:

ideological favoritism towards that community.   We we we go back to the, the the teacher from Batley   who's been in hiding now for 3 years simply because he,   whether you say it's wise or not wise, he showed a a cartoon of of of the prophet in in his in his in his class.   Well, you can argue that it was insensitive. You can argue that it was culturally tasteless.   You know, I can either agree with that or disagree with that.   But the guy has had to go into hiding and has been in hiding for 3 years With his family. Now. You're with his family. Protective custody. Yeah. Protective custody. Protective   custody.  

Now, what should have happened   is that the police   should have   escorted that teacher back to school the following   day. And provided an escort, an armed escort if necessary, to make sure that that teacher was at his desk for every day of term.   That's what should have happened. And would the police took the side   in effect   of of the the violent   Islamic   gangs   who were threatening his life.   They they whisked him away and hid him, put him in a safe house, But that's not enough. What do you think is   the politicians' response to that? The politicians what what what response? The politicians have been absolutely silent about it because they are afraid   of offending Islam. It's as simple as that. And there's a reason they're afraid of offending Islam. Do you know who Samuel Patty was? Yeah. Yeah. They're afraid of offending Islam because Islam has a tendency   at times   to be violent.  



[01:25:30] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Samuel Pate was a school teacher who was beheaded in France. It turned out that the in the arrest were many school pupils who who had planned it along with the attackers, I believe. He was beheaded in his classroom.  

[01:25:41] Harry Miller:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember it I remember it well. Now again, this is the thing. I don't see any problem with saying that,   that a religion there is a problem with a religion.   I remember I remember during the in the in the nineties absolutely   loathing Catholicism   because of all of the all of the stories that were coming out Pedophiles. About pedophile pedophile priests, etcetera.   I've got loads of Catholic friends. None of them took it personally. Does that mean you hate them? No. But people are completely understand this. Absolutely. They it does not mean that I hate them. It means that I hate the institution that they happen to that they happen to enjoy.   Have you ever seen the Book of Mormon   at the theater?  

Okay. So here's another great example of 2 tier policing.   In the book of Mormon, which has been running it was it was written by the guys from South Park.   Okay. It's been running I think at the Prince of Wales Theatre since about 2013,   2012, something like that.   And it has scenes in it   where where where the Muslims are dancing with Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer and being terrified terrorized by a Starbucks coffee cup because, of course, Mormons,   don't like don't like coughing.   It has a scene in it where they're where where where they're singing about fucking god in the eye. There's there's an entire riff in there,   about how the cure for AIDS   is to have sex with a frog.  

Okay.   Can you imagine a similar musical   I see. Called the book   the book of Mohammed?   Where you've got Mohammed   dancing with Tony Blair and George W Bush. No. Can you can you imagine it where there all the Muslims lined up doing a song of down sax about fucking Allah in the eye?   It wouldn't happen. It couldn't happen. The police wouldn't let it happen. And if by some miracle it did get on the stage,   it would be the the the everybody would be prosecuted and the police probably would have been blown up by the intermission.   That's the difference. That's why we talk about 2 tier policing. It's right there. I'm all for   I'm all for skits about religion.  

I'm a Christian. I'm a committed Christian. I'm a Baptist.   I love the life of Brian. I think it's a fantastic film. And I think any any religion has got to be man enough To face scrutiny. Yeah. To face scrutiny and to face mockery. Because if your god is so offended if your god is offended by a little bit of mockery or a little cartoon,   then screw your god. Because I'm not interested in a god like that. Not at all. I say, I'm a committed Christian. Love Jesus.   I don't care at all if you want if you wanna mock,   mock my religion.  

Not at all. Don't mind in the slightest.   Because I think in a secular society,   all religions, all ideas   should be capable of being mocked. That doesn't mean that we're mocking the disciples, the followers, the believers. It means we're mocking the institution   and the ideology. And we've got to be allowed to do that.  

[01:28:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Obviously, it's down to the scripture within the Quran which says you're not allowed to do that. And it's punishable. Yeah. Well well well, screw it. That's my view. Screw it. And no no offense. Well, that's what you believe. You believe in the fire. After Charlie Hebdo. Charlie Hebdo was the cartoons in in France. After the fact that   men winning machine guns and massacred everybody and killed everyone in a terrorist attack, then the one single  

[01:29:08] Harry Miller:

national newspaper run those cartoons. I think it's also I mean, I mean And all of our leaders of the western world march through Paris holding on. Right. We're for free speech. So I I understand based on a risk assessment,   I understand   why   I understand why. Because   editors have got to balance   freedom of expression with protecting   their staff. So I understand it. But in the long term,   what it does, it destroys   it destroys our democracy   because we are it's making the terrorists   win. Now   I admit it takes balls to publish a cartoon like that in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo massacre.   But   we can't have the police   telling us not to do it. If we don't do it, it's because we've done our own risk assessments, and we wanna stay stay on the side of caution. It cannot be because the police have somehow said,   well, he shouldn't have caused offence.  

And because the police haven't correctly   policed   those communities   who are making those threats.   It can't be for those reasons. It can be because you personally  

[01:30:13] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

have fear for your for yourself and your staff. That's a legitimate reason for not publishing. Are you aware, Harry, of how many images there are of Mohammed all over the world historically   by by by Muslims? No. I do. Yeah. In museums. Everywhere.   So this whole new jihad Mhmm. Mindset that you can't draw Mohammed is is exactly that. It's new.   So I was gonna do a,   a prophet Mohammed's   exhibition, and I knew people would think I was mocking him. Yeah. Then when I've done it, I was gonna show, actually, this was created by a Muslim. This was created by a Muslim. This was created by a Muslim all over the world.   Okay, Harry.  

You are a certainly the wrong guy for them to mess with, but you seem like a man on a mission,   to protect freedom of speech.   If people are watching this in fact, first of all, before I get into how other people can follow you and support you, if someone's watching this, what advice do you have to them   if they've said something   and their HR department,   their work, or the police   are interfering in what is legitimate freedom of speech? Okay. So if if if if it's to do with,  

[01:31:16] Harry Miller:

your HR department or anything like that, then get in touch with the the free speech union. In fact, I would say join the free speech union as a matter of urgency straight away.   If it's the police,  

[01:31:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

do you know? They refuse my membership, are they?   That's a shame. I know. Free speech  

[01:31:33] Harry Miller:

union. If if Toby. What the fuck, man? If if it's to do with,  

[01:31:37] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

the police, get a hold of me at at we off air cop. At we off air cop? Yeah. On Twitter. Yeah. How do people if someone's watching this, they wanna be on part of this crusade to defend freedom of speech. I'm guessing by your original cost that you said, the cost of your court case that you successfully won was into the access 100 of 1,000,   to support, say, for example, this lady, Lindsay, is it?   That's gonna cost in excess of tens of 1,000 if Yeah. It's gonna be impossible. Any of these cases. Yeah. 100 of 1,000. Yeah. 100 of 1,000 in any this is the cost of fighting for free speech. Yeah. How can someone watching this support that? So again, we we will keep you updated.  

[01:32:13] Harry Miller:

If you log on to, We Are Fair Corp on Twitter, we'll keep you updated   when there's a court case and then there'll be a crowd funder there and we'll be asking you to donate into it. Simple as that.   So the main thing is follow follow us at we are fair cop.  

[01:32:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

We are fair cop. That's on social media on Twitter.   Where do you, where do you see this heading for yourself, Harry? Do you see   how old are you now? I'm 59. So coming out of business, if this hadn't happened if this hadn't happened in 2019,  

[01:32:43] Harry Miller:

what would you been doing?   Honestly, I don't I don't fucking directed your life. I don't know what I'd been doing. I've probably been I used to Chill it out. I used to do a bit of teaching at university and stuff like that. I'd probably be doing a bit of that. Probably I don't know. I'm chilling and being lazy. But,   yeah, this is this is not I'm not a natural one for this at all. The the the killer is I'm quite good at it.   And and I've been up for the. I wish I wish I wasn't. I wish I could just sort of,  

[01:33:10] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

you know, go home and This is the this is feel easy. This is what I tell people about our side of politics. Once your eyes are open, you can't close them. Your eyes are open to the attack on free speech and you can't stop it. You can't. No. It's it's like, you know, you get you you you get dealt a certain hand  

[01:33:24] Harry Miller:

and you've gotta play it. And for me, everything that I've done in life, everything feels as though it's led me to be able to do this and do it well.   That's that's the truth of the matter. Your destiny.   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's what that's what that's what it feels like. Yeah. That's what it feels like. But it's not something.   And I have no interest in I have no interest in fame. I have no interest in   in anything. I just do I just do what is necessary,   and that's it. I don't   I don't flog myself as a as a brand. You know? I'm not looking to I'm not looking to sort of become a, you know, a minor celebrity or anything like that.  

[01:34:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:

Well, it's certainly been an inspiring story of resistance   because it's good to hear someone win. It's good to hear someone fight in in them. It's very rare as well in today's society that people stand up and fight. So   I applaud you on your Yeah. Thanks for having me, Tommy. I've enjoyed it. Thank you. I've enjoyed it as well. I've enjoyed it. I hope you've enjoyed it. If you've listened to this, these are the important discussions that you understand what's going on with the encroachment and the attack on freedom of speech. Ironically, we're called silenced.   The every single thing you've we've just discussed   is about silencing you, not silencing him or me. It's about silencing you. So I'm grateful for your support for giving me the opportunity to sit in these positions, to hear these stories, to awaken the public. So like, subscribe, share this everywhere,   and you can be part of the resistance by simply sharing these discussions,   logging on, supporting Harry, supporting their campaigns, and supporting freedom of speech. Thank you. Cheers, Harry. Enjoy the night. Yeah. It's great. Thanks, Harry. Enjoy the night. Yeah. Cheers, mate. Carry on watching for more interesting guests. I'll talk to anyone. I'll debate anyone. I'll hear anyone's   story. If you want to help me belong that way,   it's not free. I need your support. If you can support my family,   that gives me my peace of mind. It means I can continue to do the work I do.  

I appreciate every bit of support as do my children. Gives me the ability to fly them out here to see me, so I can stay in constant contact with them. I'm deplatform and I'm censored, so I need you I need you to share this content and make sure you stay tuned for upcoming weekly guests,   interesting guests, exciting guests. I'm Tom Robson and this has been my podcast,   silenced.