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Gad Saad is an evolutionary behavioural scientist, author, and professor known for his work on the application of evolutionary psychology to consumer behaviour. He is a vocal advocate for free speech and frequently critiques political correctness and ideological extremism. Saad is also recognised for his engaging and often humorous commentary on a wide range of cultural and scientific topics, which he shares through his popular YouTube channel, "The Saad Truth."
[00:00:11]
Gad Saad:
When Islam comes into a place, they offer you a few choices. Convert, die, or live or live as a dhimmi, and you pay a jizyah, which is a protection kind of polkaise. And there are all sorts of institutionalized mechanisms to remind you of where you stand in the hierarchy of the society. I've got an opportunity to brainwash these next generation of of idiots. Let me use the pulpit to do that. And therefore, let me teach them that, socialism is great. Let me teach them that, whiteness is evil, that patriarchy, men are toxic and so on. So then what do you expect the future generation of politicians to be? They are called Justin Trudeau. If we're looking at universities, and in fact, if you you've got children. Yeah?
[00:01:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
If there's a parent here whose children are about to go to university, what advice would you give the kids? Because people I I always say now, people parents used to be worried about their kids going to university and getting addicted to drugs or drinking too much alcohol. Now I'd be worried about them coming out of university, chopping off their penis or removing their boobs. Something big's gone on. Information covered up, censorship, corruption, the mainstream media have proven itself to be untrustworthy. I'm here to give a platform for debate, for truth, for open discussion. I'm introducing you to my podcast, silenced with Tommy Robinson.
[00:01:41] Gad Saad:
Who exactly is Tommy Robinson or Steven Gatsky Leno? With the English friendly The problem is this was landing brave. Far right, lambophobic act Since then, we've organized protests across the country, London, Manchester, Leeds, even in their thousands of marching across the street. There's no such thing in this country as a Muslim. Free, Derby Robertson.
[00:02:08] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Welcome to my latest edition of my podcast, Silence. I've traveled to Canada. The first city I've come to is Montreal to meet a certain gentleman who I've watched for years, I've respected. It's Gad Sad. How you doing, Tommy? It's a pleasure to finally sit down with you. Likewise. So I'll just introduce you to my viewers. And I'd like to start at the beginning, Gads. Sure. Just to understand I know you're an author. You're a professor. But where was you born?
[00:02:35] Gad Saad:
So I was born in Lebanon Yep. 59 years ago now. I can't believe I still feel like I'm 12 years old. It's not. And you look well good. Thank you. 1964, we were part of the last we, meaning my family, my community, we're part of the last remaining Jews in Lebanon. There was at one point a, not thriving, but a sizable minority of Jews in Lebanon, most of whom left during the 20th century as it became more difficult to be Jewish in the Middle East. But we were part of the last group that steadfastly refused to leave Lebanon. But then the civil war broke out in 1975 when I was 11 years old. Well, it broke out when I was 10. And so we spent the 1st year of the civil war in Lebanon, but then it really became untenable to be Jewish in Lebanon.
[00:03:24] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And so we escaped and came to Montreal. So people understand the civil war in 75? 75. Yeah. Civil war. What was the demographics of Lebanon at that time? So it would have been majority Christian.
[00:03:35] Gad Saad:
Roughly, I think, probably around 60s 67%. So Lebanon was a Christian country. I mean, it is historically been referred to as the Paths of the Middle East. And as tolerant and progressive, but you always have to contextualize those words in the context of the Middle East. Right? In the Middle East, you're tolerated until you're not tolerated. Right? And when you're no longer tolerated, you gotta put on some really good running shoes and run fast because they're coming for you. So you always had a sense that your time was limited, and that's why most of my extended family had left Lebanon Before the civil war. Before the civil war. Okay. And so, and so by the time the civil war broke out, as you probably know, most butchery in the world is measured against the brutality of the Lebanese civil war because it was truly, orgiastically brutal because, you know, neighbors that have lived next to each other suddenly became mortal enemies.
Much of the war was some argue that it was based on politics, but, of course, it had a huge religious element. So the Christians were generally fighting against the Muslims, but even within the Muslims, there were many different factions, the PLO, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, and many other militia groups. And there was really no place where the Jews can hide. So I'll give you a couple of quick examples. So in Lebanon, you carry what's called in Arabic, hawaii. Hawaii is an internal ID card. Which has your religion on it. Which has your religion on As a matter of fact, it's it's more important than your height or your weight or your eye color. It's it's the number I mean, the prism by which everything is is is measured in Lebanon is which group do you belong to, which religious group. So if you were Jewish, it wasn't even so in Arabic, Jewish is Yahudi.
It wasn't even written Yahudi, Jew. It was written Isra'il, which means Israelite. So even in the context of the fact that you were Lebanese, you're Arabs, it doesn't matter if you were an Israelite. Now why is that important? Because one of the ways that people got killed early in the war is that there'd be these random roadblocks, these militia roadblocks anywhere. So you're going to buy bread. There's a militia group that stops you. Show us your how we show us your papers. Well, there weren't many militia groups that you were going to clear if you had Israelite on it. So you couldn't really so there was many ways that you could die. Snipers could kill you, bombs could kill you, people could knock on your door, the militia could kill you, the robot. And so if you were Jewish, you had to really lay low and be quiet and hopefully
[00:06:06] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
get out. And eventually, during that 1st year, we were able to escape to Montreal. So people can understand. So what kicked off the civil war? And was it just because am I right that just all of a sudden roadblocks start getting set up? So the catalyst
[00:06:19] Gad Saad:
Yeah. Although there is the the cancer is brewing before it all comes out was I think there was an incident where, there was a a massacre of a bus that kind of led to the original original breaking out of war, but the the the writing was already on the wall. So, for example, my so I have 3 siblings. The next oldest is 10 years older than me. He's a judo champion, and you'll see in a second why I'm mentioning it because people think that it just broke out the war, but all of the nastiness was already being laid in the foundation. So he was Lebanese champion for many years in a row Okay. In June. And then, around 1973, so this is 2 years before the war broke out, he was visited by some men who explained to him that it was time for him to retire because it wasn't it didn't look good before, you know A Jew to be representing Lebanon. And, well, and also to be winning the Lebanese championship, especially in a combat sport. That doesn't look good. Right? I mean, Jews should be submissive and and meek. Know your place, Jew. And so they they basically told him that it was time for him to retire lest there might be an accident that happens to him. And so he left and moved to Were they Christian or were they Muslim? The people that come to you? Muslim. Muslim. Okay.
Then my oldest brother who lives now in Montreal, in 1974, he was dating. He was courting about to get married to a Palestinian Christian woman, which didn't go well either in her family because she was marrying a Jew and it didn't go well in my family because she wasn't. He wasn't marrying a Jew. Okay. And so there was already a lot of conflict. They ended up eloping. Well, he was stopped at one of those roadblocks by PLO, Palestinian Liberation Organization, militiamen. This is before the civil war. And when they stop and they said, oh, boy. You've got a really beautiful watch here. Meaning, give me a look it up. And he's like, no. This is a watch that my mother gave me. No way. And so they look at his wife to be a I think she they weren't married yet, blonde and said, oh, she really she's really beautiful. You're a young wife. Right? And then he ended up moving to Montreal also before the civil war. So, yes, we can talk about That's just your family. So just out your 2 brothers, that's happened to them. So what was happening across the board to the union? So, yes, there we can point to a specific event that started the war, but all of those undercurrents were taking place. If you want, I can share a couple of Please do. Stories that I went through. I actually discussed this in the first chapter of The Parasitic Mind, my 2020 book. So in the first time that at least I remember facing Jew hatred in Lebanon, middle of Paris and the Middle East, Lebanon, tolerant, progressive Lebanon, was in 1970, my, not mine, president Gamal Abdel Nasser, who was the Egyptian president of of Egypt, he was very, very popular across the Middle East and in the Arab world because he was a pan Arabist, meaning he was trying to unite all of the Arabs into, you know, one cohesive force. Of course, in part, we get rid of Israel and the the the Jew cancer and all this kind of stuff. Well, in 1970, he passed away.
And as often happens in the Middle East, people take to the street to do these kind of lamentations and religious incantations and death to this and death to that. And as the the crowd was proceeding down my street in Beirut, I was hearing death to Jews, death to Jews. And I turned to my mother, I said, why why are you screaming deaf to Jews? And she says, just keep keep your head down. Be quiet. That was the first time that How old are you? I'm 5. I'm 5. I hadn't yet turned 6, so this is 1970. So that was one example. Another story that I tell, well, I told the judo story with my brother. By the way, just to complete that story. So my brother leaves to France because he can no longer compete compete in, in Beirut, Lebanon.
In 1976, the Montreal Olympics well, happened in Montreal. He ended up representing Lebanon. So imagine so the guy who was too Jewish to be the Lebanese champion ends up we'll we'll forgive the fact that you've got the terminal disease of being Jewish in 1976. To fly in the Olympics. To fight in the Olympics. So 1976, not too far from here. They he actually competed. He he lost in the 1st round, but nonetheless, he represented Lebanon. Here's a to 2 more quick stories. Story number 2, around 1974, so this is probably 6, 8 months before the start of the civil war.
I'm sitting in my class, and, the teacher says, each of you stand up and tell us what you wish to be when you grow up. Person gets up, I wanna be a a soccer player. I wanna be a policeman. I wanna be a nurse. And a guy, a kid gets up who knows, who's a, quote, friend of mine who I've grown up with, says when I grow up, I wanna be a jupiter to the rawness applause and laughter of everybody. And by the way, I have How many Jews were in your class? There was one other Jew. And the rest of all Muslim? No. Mixture. Mixed. Okay. Christian Muslims. Yeah. Christian Muslims. Was this child who said this Muslim? I so I can't confirm, but I'm almost certain based on his name that he is. Okay. So yeah. And how old are you then? So I'm about 10, maybe 9 and a half.
Story 3, which I'll tell the story as it happened in Lebanon and then I'll close the loop as to what happened just here in Montreal after October 7th. Okay. So the day that we left Lebanon, and by the way, we were accosted to the airport by Palestinian militia, whom my parents had paid money to
[00:12:24] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
to get us to get you out of work because
[00:12:27] Gad Saad:
there was no way that you could clear the roadblocks that were around the Beirut International Airport that were controlled by the PLO if if whoever was bringing you was not sympathetic. Like, if they don't tell you, you can go through. Yeah. Now, of course, as you're being taken by these guys that are all wearing the all the stuff that you see, the ISIS The Jada. I grew up in that world. And so those guys come over to our house to take us. Now you don't know if when they're taking you Even a toad. They're going to put take care of the ditch and put a bullet in there. As a matter of fact, I remember So your mom and dad are taking a massive risk by doing that. Exactly. But that's the only way out. Otherwise, just You you you you roll the dice, you're either going to get a balloon in your head or they're actually going to honor their thing. And luckily, they did honor it. Anyways, I remember when the guys came over to our house, the main guy that what looked like the the leader, was actually very sweet to me. And he saw that I was looking at the It's good. The machine gun. No. And he said, oh, do you wanna hold it? And I remember sort of holding the the machine gun as a little boy. How old was you at this point?
I just turned 11. 11. Okay. Yeah. I just turned 11. So we left end of October, and my birthday is in mid of mid October. So I just turned 11. So then by the way, as we're driving to the airport, I have I'm about to tell a story of what happened when we left. We flew out of Lebanon. But the I have no memory from the time that they picked us up to when we flew out. And once I asked my parents, how come I don't recall That that kind. That thing? And so they told me, and I truly have no memory of it, that as we were going through different neighborhoods in Beirut to get to the Beirut International Airport, we were taking fire from different, you know, make militia who were not sympathetic to the PLO, and we were they had, like, our suitcases on top of us in the car, and we were all so it was so traumatic You might find it. That I I repressed it. Glad to hear. I don't so I have no recollection of that. The only recollection I have is them telling me that that that happened. So anyway, so we we get to the airport, We take the flight out. And at one point, the captain says we are now out of Lebanese airspace.
Okay? And so my mother takes out, in the book, I say it could have been a star of David or it could have been a high, which is the the sign of, you know, life. But I I'm almost certain it was a star. David, she puts it around my neck and says, now you can wear this proudly and not hide your identity. Okay. So that gives you a sense of what Paris in the Middle East was, that even though you were tolerated, don't advertise that you're Jewish because you never know who's going to come after you. Now let's fast forward to around, I think it was October 21st. You could probably go and check because the tweet is still up. Okay. So I was picked up. I was working on a laptop, at a cafe not not far from where you and I met yesterday. Okay.
And my wife picks me up, and she's with our one of our children who had just played a soccer match, in the east end of Montreal. And as I walk into the car, the first thing he says, daddy, if you were wearing a Star of David where I just played soccer, you'd be dead. So in 19 and by the way, the poetry of life is that he uttered those words at almost the identical age that I was in in 1975. So in 1975, my wife, my wife my mother puts the Star of David around me and says, you can now wear this proudly. That's 45 years later, my son says, if you were that star of David, you'd be dead in Montreal, Canada in the 21st century.
[00:16:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So that's where it's gone. That's where it's gone. When you left when you left there, when you left Lebanon,
[00:16:33] Gad Saad:
there was your mom, you, who else? There was my mom, me, my sister had returned. So my my 2 brothers were out. Already gone. One brother was already in Montreal. The one who with the watch and the blonde. The other one had lived in France because it's no place for a Jewish girl to to to grow up. She had come to Montreal to study at university, but had gone back to visit much Beirut and then got caught in the Lebanese civil war. So as we left, it was me, my mother, my father, and, if I remember correctly, my sister.
[00:17:21] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Your mother and father, were they born in Lebanon? They were born in Lebanon. So understanding, we can see how it's gone 45 years later to Canada to Canada, Montreal. But when your mom and dad were growing up in Lebanon, was it safe to be Jewish?
[00:17:34] Gad Saad:
So it depends what safe is. Right? Is it is it safe in the sense that there isn't a daily, you know, Paul Groman genocide of Jews? Yes. Can people find out that you're Jewish? Of course, Because they just have to go to the synagogue on Saturday mornings, and they would see who's there. But you it it's it's quote safe. Right? It's, you know, be quiet. Yeah. Don't ever certainly don't ever show allegiance to Israel. Don't ever speak about politics. Don't ever criticize the government. Know your place, Jew. Right? So you are may maybe your followers know this.
You know the concept of a dimmi. Yep. Okay. So That's why I explained for the people that died. Right. So it I understand. So in in in Islamic doctrine, dimmi is not even a second class citizen. It's a 3rd class citizen, a 4th class citizen. When Islam comes into a place, they offer you a few choices. Convert, die, or live or live as a dhimmi, and you pay a jizyah, which is a protection kind of poll tax. And there are all sorts of institutionalized mechanisms to remind you of where you stand in the hierarchy of the society. You're a dummy. Right?
They refer to you as, a kafir, a kufar, an unbeliever. It's a kind of a dirty word, right? Now, that doesn't mean that on a daily basis people were spitting at you. My parents were well entrenched in Lebanese society. They had tons of friends who were Muslim and Christian, so I don't want to make it sound as though every day, you know, you were you had tomatoes thrown at you, but you knew that your time was numbered. That's why my extended family had all left. That's why all of my siblings who were much older than me, my parents were clear that their future could not be in Lebanon. And that was before the civil war broke out. Right? So so so, yes, it was dangerous in that, I think my parents were smart enough to realize that it we had no long term future there. But by the way, it's so hard to extricate yourself from your background and that even when we moved to Montreal in the middle of the most brutal civil war, my parents then kept returning to Lebanon.
And, you know, many people would say, well, how how how could you go back to support? How could you you've emigrated. You've left, you know, by the skin of your teeth. Well, it's because they came here. They're already in their forties. They're they hate it here. It's cold here. Did they ever bring you back as children? I never went back. No case. So they made decision to go back. They as a matter of fact, from from when we immigrated in at the end of 1975 till 1980, a large chunk of that time period, I was only growing up with the judo brother because the the other brother was married.
The other the sister had then gotten also married. So in our first home in Montreal, it was just me and the judo player who was 10 years older than me. He's busy. He's going to university. He's still training for judo. So I was basically raised by the wolves, okay, by by by the street. So thank God I I came out okay. On one of their return trips to Lebanon in 1980, my parents were kidnapped by Fatah, and it was that event that then resulted in them never returning. So they were kidnapped, some really bad things happened to them.
[00:21:09] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
What sort of bad things? Do you want me to ask?
[00:21:11] Gad Saad:
I mean, torture. My father had a a massive, beating with a rifle here that caused a, a temporary paralysis. You know, when you get a stroke Yeah. Yeah. Heart attack. Right. So he had that for a while. My mother so I'm not even sure if I've ever mentioned this publicly. So you might be getting an exclusive here. Or anything sexual? Sexual. Right. So I was 15 at the time, and I remember that the You're here on your own?
[00:21:44] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Your mom and dad are in? I'm here with my friend. With your brother, but your mom and dad are out there. And how did you find out they've been kidnapped? Well, that's actually, I talk about this in the parasitic mind.
[00:21:54] Gad Saad:
A friend of mine whom we call my cousin, but he's not a biological cousin, but my parents and his parents were very close friends. He went to the same high school as me. Now he had found out through the Lebanese network that my parents had been kidnapped, but my siblings had kept that in the trunk. From you to stop your worrying. Right. And so he would see me at school laughing and being And I get out of how's he How this guy is pretty cold. He's pretty callous to to be so Well, they say fair about it. I didn't know that my parents were kidnapped. I knew that there was a lot of hectic stuff happening in the house and there was a lot of stress because my siblings were coming, they were phoning, and they they told me some via story about, oh, they lost money, we're trying to what whatever. Some some just to not get me worried.
I only found out the full story when my parents were rescued and then they came came back to Montreal. They were, I think, in Campellini for 8 days in tow. Now regarding the sexual stuff, when I did find out the story and I was 15 years old, as you would expect from an evolutionary perspective, which we might end up talking about, my first concern as a male was that they do anything to my mother. And I remember I asked her that. She kind of hesitated and then just said she said no, but I've never known if it was a lie or not. But she said that they threatened her, that they they would do certain things to threaten that the gang rape was coming.
I won't get into the details. But I've never I've always wondered whether she lied to me or didn't lie to me. So I I don't know. And I never brought it up again. But I remember as a 15 year old, I thought that if she says that it's yes, I would spend the rest of my life hunting down those guys. But she told me no.
[00:23:54] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So so she was kidnapped by Fata. Fata. And you you talked about the PLO. To people who don't know who the PLO are, who the PLO So the PLO is the Palestinian Liberation Organization.
[00:24:05] Gad Saad:
Their their head was, Yasser Arafat, who so the the background to some of this story of the kidnapping, What so my mother's best and I'll come back to the piano in a second. My mother's best friend was a Syrian woman, a Muslim woman. Her name was Hassan. She was the personal dresser of Hafez al Assad. Hafez al Assad was the president of Syria. His son now, Bashar al Assad, is the current president. Okay. And the way it works in Lebanon, everything is through connections. Right? If if you don't have connections, I mean, you're dead.
So what my siblings were doing through all their networks is trying to work the network to find out and dad. Where mom and dad are. Who happened? So through Hassan, she reach she come she speaks to Hafez al Assad, who then the most likely kidnappers would have probably been some fraction of Palestinian militia. So then, Yasser Arafat tells her, well, I I don't know if they're with one of our groups. I can find out, but hopefully they're not with Abu Nidal's group because at that time there was a a power struggle between Abu Nidal who was leading, FATA and Yasser Arafat and they were with that group.
Now during the captivity one of the things that they were, well, the main thing that they were trying to get them to do, torturing and so on, is to get them to sign that they are Israeli spies. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And then and my luckily, they're not Israeli spies, but they never said, yeah, yeah, okay fine we'll sign it. Because then that would have given them the, you know, the legal, I mean not that there's any legal Justifications. Yeah. To just execute them. And it turns out, and I I don't think I've ever you're getting a lot of scoops today. So one story that I had heard after the fact was that so as you know, in the 7th deadly sins, one of the deadly sins is greed.
And so this one story I heard, I I I don't know if it's true or not, but I think it's pretty authenticated, is that that so my dad had a store. My my mother had a store, and my dad had a store in separate areas. My mother was closer to the Jewish border. My dad was in another area called Hamada. And the owner of that building wanted my dad to sell him off the the historic, which hadn't yet been liquidated. My parents had kept it. That's why they kept going back to Lebanon even Oh, they kept the business even illegally. Exactly. And so, apparently, he concocted this whole, kidnapping To get the business. To get to them get the business. So Privacy. Yeah. So that's that's what I had heard from. So Okay. And then when you you said your parents were rescued, who rescued them? They were rescued just means that there was a money money exchange Money exchange. Okay. Exchange and then, okay, you can have them back. Now the reality is, I don't know if you can appreciate, in Lebanon, you know, at the time, your life wasn't worth the price of the bullet that you will put in your head. So the fact that they even survived for that many days, you know, usually when you're kidnapped You're gone. You're gone. You're never seen again. And I and actually, what led to the original thing of my dad being beaten is that as they came, to their apartment, there were militia guys waiting for them saying, come with us. And my father realized that that meant that they were about to be executed.
So he starts pleading with them and he's holding on to the railing of the the stairs of the apartment building and to try to get him to, you know, let go, they they started, smashing him. So it was truly miraculous that they, you know, ever came out. So after that, no one's gone back. I've been invited many, many times once, you know, I became a a known person. Oh, come back. You'll be in the prime minister's thing. You'll be protected. We we love you. Blah blah. And I said, hey. I'm not Taking that risk. Never taken that risk. What's the results of the civil war? Nothing really. I mean, all Who controls it now, Lebanon? Well, so Lebanon, the demographic reality is that it's completely flipped now. It is a majority Islamic country.
It's I so the exact numbers, I'm not I'm not sure, but it's probably now 65, 70 percent Islamic. Of course, Hezbollah is in control in most areas, but it it's a, you know, demography is truly destiny. Right? And and that's one of the things that I've been and so have you, you know, been warning people in the west is that it's just a numbers game. And so in Lebanon, you would have never thought that it would ever be anything other than a Christian country. Well, it is no longer a Christian country. What happened to the Syrian Christians?
What happened to the Iraqi Christians? What happened to the Coptic Christians of Egypt? Egypt used to be completely Coptic. So it's only a matter of time that you have the reverse happening. Sometimes it takes 2 minutes for us to Islamic society. Sometimes it takes 2 years. Sometimes it takes 200 years. But once that trend starts, Insha'Allah, it will eventually be 100% Islamic.
[00:29:41] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And is that the trend you see happening now for the West? Yes.
[00:29:45] Gad Saad:
I've been I mean, again, I'm I'm speaking to a guy who's been warning Europe. Yeah. It's it's absolutely unbelievable. Right? So if I let me contextualize. We moved here at the end of 75, from 1975 to about 1998. And the reason why I remember the date is because it's episodic memory, because the first time that I saw a veiled woman in Montreal. So I went from 1975 to 1998 without ever seeing a veiled woman. K. As a matter of fact 23 years, nothing. Yeah. Nothing. 0. I Islam was in my rearview mirror. Then I started seeing, then then I started seeing more, then I started seeing more. Well, now I can walk out of my house and out of the first 50 women I see, 25 of them will be veiled. So we've gone from 'I didn't see a veiled woman for 23 years' to now it's everywhere. It's normalized everywhere.
Now someone will say, oh, but it's just a garment. It's just what do you care? It's just an exciting it's just a, I mean, sure. If you're an idiot, you think that. Right? Islam doesn't tolerate others once it becomes in the majority. Does that mean that every Muslim is a horrible person? Of course not. Does it mean that most are lovely? Absolutely. Do I have tons of Muslim friends and fans? Absolutely. We're talking about the ideology. Does Islam tolerate others once it's in the majority? Well, there is this thing called 1400 years of data that can answer that question for us and the answer is rather unequivocal.
[00:31:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So why do you think anyone like our country's leaders who have got 1400 years of history to look at where there's no success story ever? Why do you think they can't work this out?
[00:31:40] Gad Saad:
That that's why I wrote The Parasitic Mind. Right? So let me explain what that book is about, and then I'll be able to answer that question. So in in the animal kingdom, there is a field called parasitology. Parasitology is the study of parasites. In in the animal kingdom, there are all sorts of parasites that can get a hold of its host. So let's say a tapeworm gets into your intestinal tract and it and it feeds off it feeds off you. A neuroparasite is a parasite that wants to go to your brain, alter your circuitry to suit its interests. So for example, a wood cricket, once it is parasitized by a hairworm, brain worm, it it it the hairworm needs the wood cricket to jump into water in order for it to complete its reproductive cycle. The wood cricket detests water, it it hates it, it abhors water. But once its brain is parasitized, it becomes zombified.
So it merely jumps to its suicide in the surface of its parasitic What's inside it? What's inside it. Right? So I argued in the parasitic mind that human beings can be parasitized by ideological brain worms. Right? So in the same way that we can be parasitized by actual physical brain worms, and and humans can be parasitized by actual brain worms, we can be parasitized by postmodernism, cultural relativism, social constructivism, radical feminism, identity politics, diversity, inclusion, equity, and many others. And each of these were spawned on university campuses. I say this regrettably as a professor. It takes academics to come up with some of the dumbest ideas and then these ideas end up parasitizing our political class who originally come from the universities.
And so a roundabout way to answering your question is that our western politicians have had this perfect cocktail of parasitic ideas that causes them to reject that 1400 years of data, which by the way, so in my in my next book called Suicidal Empathy Next book that's not out yet? That's not out yet. Okay. That I've I've only written about a 1,000 words of it. Okay. So in that book, I basically argue that empathy is a is a wonderful emotion to hold. As a social species, it makes perfect sense that we've evolved empathy. If I exhibit empathy towards you, hopefully, you'll reciprocate that empathy at some future time. So it's it's a way for us to oil our relationship. It's it's great. The problem with any emotion is that at times it can misfire. Right? It can become hyperactive.
It can target the wrong folks for empathy. Right? It makes sense that you and I are more empathetic towards our biological children than to random children. That doesn't make us evil. It makes us evolutionary beings that recognize that our children are are More important. Are more important. Why? Well, because they are the vehicle of our immortality. They are literally half our genes are invested in our children. So I'm going to jump in in front of the truck to save my child more than I am a random kid in Liberia, not because I'm a callous mean person, but because my mind has evolved to actually be able to distinguish between where I should met my investment.
So now our Western leaders have decided, because of this cocktail of parasitic ideas, that it is it is simply evil that we close our wonderful societies to folks from the outside. They too deserve the opportunity to benefit from the West. Now, in in some small way, that's absolutely true. If you want to come to the West and you want to leave at the door all of the cultural and religious, values that might be incongruent with our Western values, then come in my brother. Hopefully, we can make even a better society with you in it. But if you wanna come into the West and you then want to impose your values once you become strong enough to do so, well, then a 3 day old pigeon should be able to predict where that's going to go. Well, because of these parasitic ideas, because of suicidal empathy, our Western leaders are the happy, merrily wood cricket jumping into the water in the surface of the hairworm.
Notionology. You like to know? Yeah. Do you? That's why I've got some.
[00:36:16] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Okay. Let's rewind a bit. So you come here at 10:11. You come from a war zone. Yes. You're in a war zone for a year. You you're escaping, maybe going to death at that time. You land in Canada. What's it like when you land in Canada for a young Jewish kid from Lebanon? It's great. So I remember as I was
[00:36:33] Gad Saad:
being driven to my first day to elementary school, so this is, I think we arrived, if I'm not mistaken, October 31, 1975. So it must have been early November that I finally got to elementary school. I saw this weird thing falling. Snow. Snow. We should be missing the The boy from from Lebanon doesn't see snow. Although in the mountains of Lebanon, there is snow. But, you know, we're we're in this city where it's where today's weather in Montreal would be considered a cold day and and whatnot. And so I'm like, what the hell is this? But then I remember thinking, well, it's better that these white things fall on me than the bullets the bullets. And so in a sense, I felt safe. So the first thing I felt is, my god, this is a cold, dreary place. And I remember the first day that I went into class, actually, our teacher's name was madame missus madame Abuayza, who she was like, I escaped Lebanon. I come here, and the first person is actually an Arabic name. And so she asks me to get up to introduce myself to the class. I didn't speak English, and this was a English elementary school. I I spoke I mean, Arabic is my mother tongue, but I also spoke French.
But you spoke French when you was in Lebanon? Yeah. Because Lebanon at one point was a French protectorate. So the the upper classes and so on, when you went to school, you typically learned, well, Arabic and French. So we all everybody spoke French. Is that why you come to Montreal? Exactly. So there were there were two reasons why we came to Montreal. Well, we had an aunt, we had a maternal aunt, my mother's sister Yep. That had immigrated, I think, around 1970 or or late sixties with her husband, who was a prominent physician, who later became the director general of the Montreal Jewish Hospital.
And so because we already had an aunt here and Montreal was French speaking, my parents thought, okay, well, let's move to Montreal. And at the time, maybe today as well, it was easier to get, you know, refugee papers, in in Canada than it would have been in the US. My my father was actually quite keen on moving to Israel, but he lost that debate with my mother because my mother was not very keen on having all her children end up serving in the military, and especially the 11 year old who certainly would have been next in line. And interestingly, when she ended up winning that debate, I I remember in 1982, Israel went into Lebanon, to to clear out some of the the nasty guys. Well, had my father You'd have been in there. The first guy in there, I would have been the absolute so I am the Lebanese guy who only left 7 years ago. I'm in my 1st year of military service because of 1982.
I would have been 17 going on 18. And I'm Arabic speaker who's going who's going into Lebanon. So if it would have been me, I would have been the the guy. So, anyways, so we we when we I get to that elementary school and the teacher asks me to stand up and introduce myself. I don't speak English, so I I said, you know, my name I mean, I said it in French. My name is Gadzad, and I come from Lebanon. And so kids were like, what? Because a lot of them are English English only. Although you you would think that Montreal is a bilingual city. And so then I said, and I went like this to make, like a shooting to to to get suggestion for them to know. Liban.
[00:40:22] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
For Lebanon. Right? Yeah. For the war. And
[00:40:25] Gad Saad:
incredibly, a few years ago, I was at, at the time, my daughter's elementary school barbecue end of year. And a guy came up From your class? From that class and said, I remember you. Exactly. And, you know, we didn't grow up with cell phones and that's all. Your documented history only lives in your memory and in anybody else who shared that experience. So in him saying that story, that was the cell phone showing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I remember you the first day. I'm like, oh my god. It's it's it gave it gave me goosebumps. So so anyway so then I I very, very quickly settled into my life. You know, children are very malleable. They have great plasticity.
It doesn't you know, you go from worrying about dying every second to worrying about whether you're going to make the soccer team. Although I wasn't worried about that because I was a very good soccer player. Was you welcomed in? Was you welcomed in? I was welcomed in. We'd probably have kids. We'd have kids. I I think one of the things that really as a slight tangent, one of the things that I think either makes your elementary school and high school years very painless or very painful is your athletic ability. Right? Yeah. If you're good at a football team, you got mates. I mean, you're you're the guy. And so I was really very good at soccer. And so it it I didn't you know, I wasn't You become popular. I was I was popular, you know, I was a friendly kid. Incredibly, in the last year I mean, it's so funny because you must be a great host because I'm telling a lot of stories that I've never told before.
The last year of my elementary school, the teacher that we had I don't know if sure with Carrie that I said. Anyways, she, I remember her very well, because I think a lot of the boys had a little bit of a crush on her, a 12, 13 year old boy crush. Did you did you?
[00:42:30] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
I I thought she was very interested. A lot of the boys. You mean you did. Yeah.
[00:42:34] Gad Saad:
Anyway, I think you're the psychologist. So this is 9 this would be 1977 now, my last year of elementary school. This was about 3 years ago, so calculate the math. 40 some years later, I received an email. Guess who's from? From the teacher. From that teacher. I Same one. I recently saw you, whatever. I don't know if you remember me. I was your thing. So it was during COVID. So then she said, well, we can't meet now, but maybe would you be open to meeting for a coffee? And so, actually, where we had our latte yesterday You met her. I met her and, actually, my wife came. I can't remember how many of our children came, but I met that teacher. So And she's watched she's obviously seen you on TV. She must have seen you, girl. I'm on the Gad's side. Exactly. I know this kid. I know this kid. And so I actually asked her. I said, how because again, you don't have the cell phone. So your memories are either in your head or through the eyes of someone else. She said, oh, I remember you. You were a very, you know, fun you know, you're a very good student. You were always funny and so on. And so in a sense, your personality is your personality. So the guy that you described as a 12 year old boy, was exactly the guy that I am today. So I sometimes have a hard time believing I'm in my fifties. I still think I'm a 12 year old boy. So so life was was good here. It was fine.
I got into soccer. I was doing well in school. The first couple of years were tough, as I mentioned, because my parents kept going back to Lebanon, so I didn't have really too much parental guidance. But then in 1980, they returned permanently, which actually caused a bit of friction because then they wanted to assume the parental role, and I had a bit of You were rebelling against it. Yeah. I mean, like, hey. I didn't need you to tell me to do my homework all the years you were back the time. Did you do your homework? Would you still do it? Would you still I was a very conscientious guy. I was. So you were still you you was on the on your on your studies? Okay. I you know, I
[00:44:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
I'd be lucky then, your parents, because you could have gone off the ground. I should have and and believe me, I I had I had
[00:44:51] Gad Saad:
people in my in that group who, you know, were pretty rough. I mean, not rough, Detroit, Michigan. But, you know, then I could have easily veered into the wrong directions. I never took drugs. I never smoked. I I would, you know, I mean, I was a joker. I would do little silly things, but, I stayed on the narrow path and here here we are many years later with Thomas Robinson.
[00:45:14] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And not on the straight path.
[00:45:17] Gad Saad:
So you've got when you come out of school, you said if you were academic, what did you wanna be when you were leaving school? Yeah. So so there were only 2 things that I've ever been interested in being. And I thought for sure both would would Beach would happen. From a very, very young age, I wanted to be a professional soccer player and I wanted to be a professor.
[00:45:36] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
In a sense, I if I can They're 2 very different things. 2 very different things.
[00:45:42] Gad Saad:
I'm fortunate enough to have been the rare unicorn who had both the brawn and the brains, right? I had both the athletic ability and was also very academically oriented, which also, by the way, allowed me to be popular and so on. I think had I been only academically oriented, then I would have been with the nerd league types. But once you do the things that you can do on the soccer field, suddenly all the girls think you're the the hot hot guy. Right? So I wanted to be a soccer player. I thought that I would pursue my academic career once my soccer career finished. I faced a few difficulties.
Number 1, in the late seventies early eighties, being a big soccer player in Montreal, Canada did not afford you many opportunities. Okay. There were some opportunities to head off to Europe. How good was your day? So I got up to the under 18 international program. So I I made the Quebec team. So I don't know if we're we're we have 10 provinces in Canada. Okay. So, one of the provinces is Quebec. So making the under 18 Quebec now. Quebec likes to consider itself as a independent nation within a nation. So in that sense, it'll be like being capped. Okay. For the for the national championship. Okay.
I had won many championships, so we were my club was Quebec champion. My club had gone to the Canadian championship. I was vice champion of Canada with the Quebec team. So, I had gone to a national training camp for the under for the under eighteens, but then there was a tournament. So my my club had won the Quebec championship, so we were the Quebec champions. We were going for the Eastern Canadian championship, and in that tournament in Burlington, Ontario, which is about 5, 6 hours away, I had a devastating, career ending injury. You would know because you understand soccer.
I had a guy come from behind me and do a scissor stack up. Yep. And it caught my leg and just destroyed my leg. And so, like, the surgeon was going to try to fix it and I asked him, you know, when do you think I can play again? He had said, oh, never mind playing. I'm not sure if you'll ever walk without a limp. Right? And so because of that, because I was growing up in Canada, because I didn't have the family environment that supported those kinds of dreams. So for all sorts of dynamics, I really you know, I I didn't have Messi's father saying, sure. We'll all move to Barcelona and put all our chips On you. On you. And so I had you know, had I I remember, by the way, my first the first time that I visited Israel in 1983, I would play soccer everywhere. And at one point I met a bunch of British guys, 2 of whom recently rolled to me. This is 1983. This is 41 years ago. So I was playing with a bunch of British guys. How old you in 1983?
83. I was yeah. I was exactly 18. Okay. They saw me play, and they said, why aren't you at some, you know, a British division club in in England? I mean, you're better than almost anybody that we've ever seen. And they were, you know, they were British guys who do their soccer. And when I was 15, I had a guy who who was Scottish watch me. I actually score a goal not too far from where you and I met, who said, I can make calls right now and send you to be an apprentice with Celtic tomorrow morning. But because I grew up in that environment where I didn't have a good family backing because I'm in Canada, because of my injury, that dream ended. And so the highest I got was really under 18. I mean, I play after belonging stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tournaments with my university and stuff, but nothing serious. And so then my career was over, and so I just then laid into academia fully and I ended up Which you did what? What did you first study? So my first my my undergraduate, my bachelor's degree was in about as as technical and theoretical field as you can get, mathematics and computer science. Okay. And the idea there was well, first, I was very good in mathematics, but I thought if I'm going to be an academic, irrespective of which field I end up being an academic in, it's good to have the first degree be the hardest possible. Because in the same way that athletes will do sit ups, even though they're soccer players, they're not they're not kicking the ball with their abs, but you need to have your whole body be in shape. I needed this guy to be in shape so that whatever I ended up studying later comes easy comes easy. And and by the way, many of the top academic psychologists all have a mathematics background because it trains you to be an analytical thinker. Right? So my undergrad was in mathematics and computer science.
Then I went on and I did an MBA, with a mini thesis in operations research, which is, again, an applied mathematics field. Then I so the both of these degrees, so my undergrad and my MBA was at McGill University, which Which is where? It's here in Montreal. It's historically, is the number one school in Canada. Usually, it has been in the top 20 universities in the world. It's known as the Harvard of the North. Okay. It is today known for its now many months of, noble Palestinian encampments on campus. That's what it's known for now. So if you go like, actually, it's not far from here in McGill. No. They've got the Encampment. They have the they have mass. Yeah. That's at that's at McGill now. So when when you was at university all those years ago Yeah. Was there any wokeness
[00:51:34] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
in the university when you Not
[00:51:36] Gad Saad:
not undergrad, not MBA, but we're gonna come to the my my second master's, my master's of science and my PhD, and there you start seeing a tiny bit of it. So I'll get through it. So my undergrad and my MBA were at McGill, then I did my then I straight after my MBA, I went to Cornell University, which is one of the Ivy League universities in the United States. The goal there was just to be a mathematical modeler, meaning to apply mathematics to study human behavior. So I would I would join my quantitative background in trying to understand, you know, how people make economic decisions and so on. But when I got to Cornell, I hooked up with a professor who eventually became my doctoral supervisor.
His name is Jay Russo, who's a very well known cognitive psychologist. What's that mean? Cognitive psychologist is somebody who studies cognition. How how does the brain think? How is memory structured? How do you make decisions? Okay. K? So and his specialty was behavioral decision making. How do people actually make decisions? How do you choose between cars? How do you choose between political candidates? How do you how do you, how do you go through information when you're choosing I mean, he didn't do mate choice, but I ended up studying how do we choose our mates. And so I quickly veered from wanting to be a applied mathematical guy to actually becoming a behavioral scientist.
And so then I all of my training at Cornell were in was in largely in psychology and cognitive studies and so on. And so my doctoral dissertation so there I got an MS, a master's of science, and a PhD. My doctoral dissertation, without boring your audience too much, was when is it that we know that we've acquired enough information to stop and make a choice? And so let me I think that's pretty easy to understand the job. So imagine I'm choosing between a a a bunch of political candidates. Who am I gonna vote for? Well, there's an infinite amount of information I could look on them. Or I'm choosing between cars or I'm choosing between girls to potentially marry. I don't end up looking at all of the possible information.
I look at enough information so that at one point I say, you know what? I'm ready. I'm ready to buy the Mazda. Right? So what I studied in my PhD is the stopping decision, and the stopping meaning I stopped acquiring additional information, and I'm now convinced I'm buying the Mazda. I'm now convinced I'm holding doctor Trump. I'm now convinced I'm married. So I study what I call the stopping decisions and sequential choice, which is an area of decision making. Okay. Very, very technical area, very fancy cognitive psychology experiments and so on. The goal was to then apply it in consumer behavior. How do consumers make choices? Okay. And that's why I'm housed in a business school. Okay. But in the process of doing my PhD, in the 1st semester of my PhD, I was taking an advanced social psychology course with a professor by the name of Dennis Regan.
And about halfway through the semester, he assigned a book to to the class. A what? A book and to assign what? A book which I'll I'll discuss what it is, which would end up completely altering my academic career. The book was titled Homicide, which is murder. It was by 2 evolutionary psychologists, and I'll explain in a second what that was. Let me check. It was a book looking at patterns of criminality across cultures, across time periods, and then and then demonstrating that there are certain universal principles that explain why these crimes happen in their form. And so they were applying this evolutionary lens, which I'll explain, to study criminality.
And so I had my eureka moment. I said, okay. I'm going to apply evolutionary theory to study human behavior in general and economic and consumer behavior in particular. So I ended up founding the field of evolutionary consumer behavior, applying evolutionary biology to study consumer behavior. But let me can I go back and see if I can So
[00:55:56] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
what would be examples of
[00:55:59] Gad Saad:
patterns of criminality that would fit under an evolutionary framework? Okay. So let's do I'll give you 2 examples. And I'll not put you on the spot, but I wonder what you're going to say. So what do you think is the number one predictor of there being child abuse in a home? If that if the father if the parent was a victim. Right. Okay. So then when I lecture about this in class, I will go to the board and I will list all of the explanations. So one would be father was a victim. 2 might be alcoholic in the home, 3 might be wrong side of the track. And all of these might have some predictive value in in predicting the likelihood of their range challenges.
What if I told you that the actual reason is a hundredfold more predictive than any reason that you'll come up with. Now just to contextualize what a hundredfold means, usually usually in science, let's say let's say you're checking the efficacy of a drug. If the efficacy of the drug versus a placebo effect is 1 point 2, that means that it's 20% higher efficacy. So 1 to 1.2. This effect that I'm about talk about is a 1 to a 100. So it's orders of magnitude greater than anything you typically see when you're doing science. Okay. Having said that, can you you wanna revise what you think that one factor is?
And and by the way, if you don't get it, don't feel bad. Almost nobody gets it. Once I will tell you it, you will go, oh my god.
[00:57:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
The one thing that makes it a 100 times more likely that they're gonna be abusive towards a child Yeah. If they follow Islam. Your hate to him. If their name's Mohammed
[00:58:00] Gad Saad:
No. Okay. So you're ready? Yeah. Go on.
[00:58:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
If there's a step parent in the home. Because it's not his kid. There you go. So that increase Of course. Because their own father is not gonna abuse their own child. It's very unlikely even if they're an abuser, that's less likely. So there's gonna be if there's a stepdad.
[00:58:18] Gad Saad:
Now stepdad has become known in the literature, in the scientific literature, as the Cinderella effect. Because the sin this the story of Cinderella, which is a universal fable, it's, the the grand the step the stepmother is not dispositionally evil across all her children. Just the stepdaughter. Just the stepdaughter. She loves her biological children, can't stand her stepdaughter. Now you can show that in many animal species other than humans, you have the exact same phenomenon. So for example, if you take a lion's pride, well, what here's the dilemma that happens. Usually, the lion pride is is held together by 1 or 2 dominant males.
They kick out all the other males that who were fathered who were sired by them once they become sexually mature. So then there are all these young, frustrated young males floating around in nature are going to identify a pride, go and test the resolve of the dominant males. Usually, they're too young to put up a fight against the big males. Yep. But eventually, father time catches up to the males. Those dominant males are then given one of 2 choices, either leave peacefully, not unlike Islam, leave peacefully or suffer the consequences. It ends up finishing very badly for those males whether they are killed by the young bucks or whether they go out into the wild And they're all on. That they're all alone and they die emaciated and and so on.
What do you think when the new incoming males come into the pride is the first act that they do?
[01:00:09] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
What do I think the first act when the new incoming come into the pride? Linking it back To the father, to the stepfather things.
[01:00:17] Gad Saad:
Is to abuse them. Is that they systematically kill all the cubs. Why? Because in the in the lion pride, males do invest in their cubs, unlike other feline species where the males only do a copulation, they just have sex and then they disappear never to be heard. In the male pride, it's a social species where the males do invest in their pride and in their kids. Therefore, it doesn't make evolutionary sense for a male to evolve the ability to just invest in kids that are not his. So, therefore, the first thing I'm going to do is I'm gonna kill off all the cubs. No.
They're they're not mine. The females, by the way, are not very happy about that. So they put up I mean, female lionesses are are no slouches. They they, actually, they do a lot more work than the males. They will put up a fight. Eventually, they lose that fight. The first thing that they do after those new males have killed all of their children, you know what it is? Well They suddenly go into estrus, meaning they become sexually receptive. To the to the one who's killed all the To the ones who's killed. So I always joke with my students when I'm teaching them about all of these dynamics. I say, you know, in the human context, we bring flowers and chocolates and we play Barry White music. In the lion context, I get you in the mood by killing your children. Okay? Now why am I telling this whole story? Because there are many, many examples, including in the human case, where if you have heavy investment by both parents, they're not very keen on investing in children who are not theirs. Okay? Yep. So that was the first moment. Wow. This is so powerful as an explanation. The second one, this one might be a bit easier to for you to predict.
Who do you think across the world, you could go to an Amazonian tribe in the Amazonian jungle, who do you think is the singular most dangerous person in a woman's life? Is it?
[01:02:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Who do I think is the most sing is the most dangerous person in a woman's life? Yeah. So it could be in a tribe in Africa. Yeah. It could be the Amazon. It could be Who's the biggest danger to her?
[01:02:36] Gad Saad:
Yeah. Do you can you guess? Is is it a serial killer hiding in the bushes trying to rape you? Is it who is it? Once I say it, you're gonna get it. Go on. It's her long term partner.
[01:02:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
It's her husband. And that's the same for everyone. So so so the biggest threat to any woman is her husband. Yeah. And now okay. So that once we've established that Yep. What is the main reason
[01:03:00] Gad Saad:
that men will typically go into a homicidal rage
[01:03:06] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
to the boys and the women? Jealousy. Jealousy.
[01:03:09] Gad Saad:
So either because of realized infidelity or suspected infidelity, that will drive men insane. Right? Yep. Now why would you have evolved that trade? Because in the human context, we are a biparental species, meaning both men and women do invest heavily in their children. Therefore, men are not going to be your ancestors and mine are not those who said, oh, yes, sweetie. Go ahead and have sex with 10, 20 guys, and I'll be happy to raise those children on behalf of Tony, the sexy gardener. Therefore, we've evolved the emotional, the cognitive, and the behavioral system to not react well to philandering, to betray women. Now, by the way, people mistakenly think that when you offer a scientific explanation for domestic violence, you're justifying it, you're condoning it, but only imbeciles think like that because I usually retort when somebody says that.
Oh, right, so when an oncologist who studies cancer gives you the explanation for cancer, he's for cancer. He's pro cancer. He's justified. And this is all factual and backed up anyway because if you're looking at the most It's those are It's most attacked from the hospital. Culture Okay. Through time period. That's the beauty of evolutionary. So when I saw the the explanatory power of evolutionary psychology, I said that's what I'm going to do with my career. And so much of my academic career has been spent applying those evolutionary principles to study human behavior in general. It could be mate chores, it could be gift giving, it could be whatever. And so my my scientific research is all over the place, but what unites it is always a commitment to applying evolutionary theory to understand why you do the things that you Why people make their decisions. Yeah.
[01:05:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And then so and you've and then you've you've how many years studying you? How many years studying you? So the total,
[01:05:08] Gad Saad:
at university is 10. You've done 10 years? 10 years. Yeah. Wow. So I I got in at around 18, 19, and I finished at actually, tomorrow, June 21, 1994, I switched from mister to doctor, and I defended my doctoral dissertation June 21, 1994.
[01:05:33] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And then went on to straight away teaching? Straight away, I got a professorship which is quite How old are you then? So you're 29. 29. I'm 29. So you've studied till you're 29. What's that what's that like studying 2/29? Because you're a student till you're 29. I was a student till I was 39. So the only
[01:05:49] Gad Saad:
job I had, like, a substantive job was as a research assistant. So throughout my education, I would get these research assistantship. The pay? That pay. And so, for example, when I went to Cornell, I was fortunate enough, you know, because of my academic record to my tuition was paid.
[01:06:08] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
My Disrupted.
[01:06:09] Gad Saad:
Yeah. I would I got a doctoral fellowship. Okay. And so so I I got the full support. I didn't have to be because as you probably know, the cost, the tuition to go to these elite, certainly private universities, prestigious universities in the US, will bankrupt you. And so I was lucky enough And your sponsorship because of your intelligence? Yeah. Because of grades. Yeah. So yeah. So I spent 10 years. And then so when I started at 29 as a professor, so I didn't have all the white hair, I looked and I looked very, very young. So when I would walk into class so the undergrad You're a senior student. Exactly. So I've here's what I've done many of course, we can't do it today.
So I would come to class, I would, sit amongst the students, and I would say, what what so this is what what is this? What is this? This is consumer psychology? Yeah. No. I didn't hear anything. So I would talk Yeah. Then I would get up Stand in front of the car. And I would just smile at the person and they're like, oh, what an asshole. But now of course, that window is gone because I can't pull off being a student anymore. Yeah. And where and was you single up to 29? I was single. Actually, one of the reasons why I came back to Montreal is at the time I was single, I had gotten so I've gotten a few other possible offers, but the the most concrete competing offer to Montreal What? Was a professorship in, in a city in New York State that did not seem very appealing to me as a single guy. So it became a lot easier to see Why not?
It had all it was in I mean, I guess I it doesn't matter if I change it now. It's 30 years later. It's it was at in Rochester, New York. Okay. Rochester is kind of a gritty blue collar town. So it's got all the problems of a city, but none of its cosmopolitan benefits. None of our new cities. It's not London. London might have problems, but it's London. Montreal might have problems, but it's Montreal. It's so it's a gritty kind of nasty town. I remember when I asked, my hosts, the the university that invited me, to speak there, well, what what can a young professor do here that's fun? And they said, oh, well, we've got the Eastman School of Music, which is some, you know, classical music. I said, well That doesn't sound too fun. That's not gonna take us very far in life. So I'm like, okay, I'm out of here, let me go back to my shop. But, I mean, in a sense, it was a difficult decision because the the starting salary that I was being offered in Montreal was almost half as much as what I would have made there. But I was willing to take that hit, at least to be back in my hometown. My family was here, and it's a lot more cosmopolitan here and so I came back to Montreal.
[01:09:14] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And, you come back at what, 30?
[01:09:17] Gad Saad:
29. 29? Then that fall I turned 30. And straight work straight into being a professor. Straight being a professor. So for for the viewers who don't know, being a professor is, yep, people might think they know what it is, but it's it really I mean, there's three elements to being a professor. There is, of course, the teaching, but the teaching is actually a small part, a very, very small part of what it is to be a professor. The main part is the research. You have to publish a lot. You have to Oh, so you're not just teaching people, you have to continually publish academic works? You have to continuously publish academic works so much so that after a few years They'll publish their studies. Publish their studies. Exactly. Or in in some fields, you can also publish, books.
In other fields, it has to be just papers and peer reviewed journals. Okay. And so that at the end of a certain number of years, you present a dossier to the tenure committee, and that dossier will be made up of how has your teaching been, were you a well received teacher, how was your service, which committees did you serve on, and so on. But by far, the most important part is what's your research profile. Which papers have you published? How often were they cited? Which books have you written? Which conferences have you presented at? So you put together this massive dossier of, you know, hundreds of pages long of all of your supporting documents. It goes in front of a committee, and and then it goes through different layers of the university, and then they decide either they grant you tenure or they deny you tenure. If they grant you tenure, you usually get a promotion in your rank of a professor, and you're now
[01:11:07] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
secure that you could never be fired. In other words, the Okay. So you have to do a certain amount of work to be recognized, then you get that guarantee. So people are working hard and hard and hard to get the guarantee that they can let them head down. They're Okay. They're going at it. They're trying. It's and hence, that's why you have the term publish or perish.
[01:11:24] Gad Saad:
You better publish a lot or else you're gonna be kicked out. If you're kicked out, if you don't if you're denied tenure, then you you have 1 year left that you serve and then you're you're out. So then Okay. You have to either apply to another university or some people decide to leave academia. Of course, the likelihood of being granted tenure varies as a function of the prestige of the university. Right? So in some universities, you better be Isaac Newton in order to be granted tenure. And other universities that are less prestigious, you might publish 2 or 3 papers and that might be enough to get you through the threshold that they expect of tenure. So I I got tenure so I became a professor in 1994.
I I went up for tenure in 1999. I got tenure, and that moved me from so the first, the first rank of a professor is called assistant professor. This doesn't mean you're an assistant to a professor. It's just the title of professor. Okay. The next rank is called associate professor, and then the final rank is called full professor. So I got full professor now also many years ago. And then even higher than that is what's called the CHIL, full professor. This is usually where you get a endowment that allows you to do research. So for let's suppose you're a very wealthy guy and you decide you wanna fund an endowment at University of London. It's going to be called the Tommy Robinson chair in Consumer Psychology. So you give $3,000,000 and then the that endowment generates some money. And then if I get appointed to the Tommy Robinson chair in in consumer psychology, I hold that chair so I get the the money that that that flows out of that endowment to do my research and supplement. So that's the highest level. It's a chair professor. So, for example, Isaac Newton, I think, held the Lucasian Chair of Mathematics at Cambridge. Okay. And so I I got all those I did all that. You got to a chair? I got to a chair. I held a chair for 10 years from 2,008 to 2018.
Then when it came to renewing that chair and now I had really become very outspoken, suddenly that chair was never renewed again.
[01:13:55] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Okay. Let's get on to how you've come outspoken. We did you was you political in those early years at university?
[01:14:04] Gad Saad:
So, I I mean, I never refrained from speaking out, but my original forays into the public sphere at first was very much tied directly to my scientific work. But already there, I was already starting to see the parasitic ideas flourishing. How? Because it may or may not surprise you to to know that for most social scientists, applying biology is basically you're a Nazi, because for most social scientists, what makes us human is that we transcend our biology, right? Biology matters for the mosquito. Biology matters for your dog. Biology matters for the zebra, but how dare you say, Professor Saad, that biology matters for consumers? We're cultural animals, professor. We transcend our biology. Bullshit. Right? You don't you don't escape your biology.
So at first I started seeing that there was a lot of blowback within academia to my work in evolutionary psychology, because the social scientists simply were not willing to accept, and even till today many of them don't, are not willing to accept, that the same mechanisms that explain how the salamander mates or how the lion mates or how the crow mates is exactly the same principle that drives mate choice in the human context. I mean, evolution doesn't operate on every single species except one called humans. So that's when I first started seeing, we've got a lot of parasitic bullshit going on in academia. So that was my first sort of, this is pissing me off. I mean, these are these are companies that should be smart, and they're buffoons.
So that was my first sort of, let me start fighting all this nonsense, but then I quickly realized that those parasitic ideas were in every corner absolute truths. Everything is subjective. Everything is relative. Right? And that's taught in every humanities department and in many of the social science field. But what do you mean there are no objective truths? Then how can you do science? Right? Now science recognizes that a truth is provisional. What we thought was true 300 years ago, in light of new incoming evidence, we revise it. Okay. So science is humble. It recognizes that you don't have it. Only religion has revealed truths. It's the truth and you could never deviate.
In in science, we recognize that what we thought was true. We thought that the sun revolves around the Earth. Okay. And then we suddenly exit. But the church wasn't happy when Galileo was saying it. Right? He didn't have tenure, and they said, you know, just because you're Galileo, we're not gonna burn you at the stake, but you're under house arrest. Stop saying this bullshit. And then people said, no. No. It's true. It's the Earth of Grazer on the sun. But we do recognize that there are real truths to be discovered, whereas postmodernism says, there's no such thing. There's not a single absolute truth. Everything is relevant. So then, in my entire 30 year career, it led me to then writing the parasitic mind because then I said, my goodness, if people only knew some of the nonsense that I see every day within academia
[01:17:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Why do why do you think there is that nonsense within academia? Why do you think you think it do you think it's to do with people's
[01:17:33] Gad Saad:
own political beliefs as well? Yeah. That's That's a pretty interesting question. Yeah. That that's a wonderful question. And I I do address it in the parasitic mind. So I argue that what unites all of those parasitic ideas is originally a noble goal, which then metastasizes into killing the truth in the pursuit of that noble goal. Right? So take, for example, feminism. Okay? Equity feminism makes sense. Equity feminism says, hey. There should be no reason why men should make more money than women as an institutional, you know, fiat. Right? Men and women should be equal under the law. Well, by that definition of feminism, you and I would call ourselves feminists. Yeah. Of course, I believe that men and women should be treated equal under the law. Then radical feminists came along and said, well, it's not enough for us to argue that men and women should be equal under the law. We should argue that men and women are indistinguishable from each other because then that would allow us to eradicate the sexist status quo. We should argue that anything that men desire to do should be no different than what women desires are.
Ladies, burn your bras. If men want to have unattached, unemotional sex and they seek it, there's no reason why you shouldn't have that exact same desire. Now women have also evolved the desire to have variety seeking in their sexual pursuits, But we should again, a 33 they all pigeon knows that the pension for sexual variety seeking is not the same for men and women. As a matter of fact, studies have been done in 60 plus societies that are very different from each other and nothing could be clearer than the fact that there are certain incontestable differences between men and women when it comes to mating behavior. What do you mean? So for well, so for example, seeking variety in mates. So if you ask men, what is the average number of sexual partners in an ideal world you'd love to have? And you ask women the same question, there is no culture where women give same amount as men.
Women always want less. Exactly. Now that doesn't mean that women don't desire sexual variety. It's not it's not it's not the prudish Victorian idea that women are these sweet little chaste flowers and only men are the Neanderthals. There are actually very good evolutionary explanations for why women are actually quite promiscuous in their sexual interests. But we certainly know that men and women are not indistinguishable from each other. Social constructivism, which is the idea that all differences are due to social construction, argues that, no, any difference between men and women must have been because of sexist parental upbringing. It must be because of socialization and advertising. It must be because of the Hollywood images that you see in movies.
None of it is due to innate differences. Now the average person that you grew up with in Luton, who is smarter than most professors, would say, what kind of bullshit is this? But academics want to create a utopian world. I call it unicornia. So in the service of unicornia, if we have to murder and rape truth, so be it. So that explains the reason why all of those idiotic ideas flourish because they come with this kind of utopian view of where They're trying to get. They're trying to get.
[01:21:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
They're making a suit together. Exactly. That's exactly right. Because even when we got into COVID, I think when the sage when the sage advisers in the in Britain, when you looked was a communist member of the Communist Party. So asking if they're actually basing on science or basing on their own politics.
[01:21:18] Gad Saad:
And and it it is based on ideology of politics. Right? But by the way, speaking of communism, E. O. Wilson, who is a he just recently passed away. He was a Harvard biologist, who was specifically an expert on social ants. The reason why I'm telling that story, because I'm gonna link it to communism in a second, social ants have a unique, social structure. Social ads as in As in literally ads. Right? Yeah. Go on. Now there's social ads in that they they build communities. Right? That community is usually made up of a single reproductive queen and then an indistinguishable mass of worker and warrior ants that are all indistinguishable parts. There is a singular queen and all the rest of you are one mush. Right?
Why am I saying this? Because when EO Wilson was asked, Professor Wilson, what do you think about socialism slash communism? He said, wonderful idea, wrong species. Beautiful, pithy, statement. Why? What he's basically saying is when you are trying to impose a political or economic system on humans, it has to be consistent with human nature. Humans are not social ads. Social ads are communists because we're all All equal. Equal. We wanna be better. Right. Some of us are taller. Some of us are shorter. Some of us are leaner messy. Some of us are not. Some of us are intelligent. Some of us are not. Some of us are ambitious. Some of us are not. So now diversity, inclusion, equity comes along, one of the biggest cancers to the human spirit, and says, hey. Anytime there is a difference in in outcomes, it can't be because humans are heterogeneous beings. Probably because of race. It's because of race, because of transphobia, because of Islamophobia, because of indigenous, because of motion, and so on. Therefore, we will institute mechanisms to create equality because remember, we're not human beings. We're worker ads. So you're exactly right that many of these ideas evolve and flourish out of academia
[01:23:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
because of the ideological rapture of the professors. Because not not I see a statistic in the UK, 90% 90% of the professors at universities are are on the left. Oh, absolutely. So So is that march through the institutions? Would you say that the people have got into those positions of academia
[01:23:53] Gad Saad:
in order to have an influence? Oh, I think you're being you're being charitable in saying it's 90%. Okay. So I I actually cite, several studies in the parasitic mind where the studies specifically look at the political orientation of professors. And and in some fields, it you couldn't make up data like this. So it'll be Cool. So across all disciplines, it might be about 10 to 1. Okay. I understand. But that actually understates the problem because in fields like engineering or the business school, which are these are disciplines that are wedded to reality. Right? You can't build a bridge using postmodernist physics because the bridge will collapse.
You can't build a model of the economy using post modernist economics because the economy will grow. Right? So because some disciplines are more wedded to reality, they're less parasitized, and therefore, there is a bit of a more equitable political orientation across the professors. But I say equitable because even in those fields, it'll be a lot more to the left than to the right. But now as you go down the disciplines and you get to the more activist disciplines, you're talking about a 138 to 0,
[01:25:20] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
a 120 to 1. As in a 138 left wing professors to 0 Exactly. On the right. So in other words And they're in they're in the their professorships where they're teaching the next generation. Exactly. And they're teaching the next generations
[01:25:32] Gad Saad:
in domains where it would make pedagogic sense that you hear both sides of the story. Right? So they should be getting the left and the right, but they're just getting left. Exactly. Now in some disciplines, if you're if you're teaching evolutionary psychology, there is no left or right. I'm going to teach you the evolutionary principles that led to why men exhibit sexual territoriality. There is no left or right. But in other disciplines You have to have left on it. Fiscal policy, monetary, immigration policy. Is the death penalty moral or not? Well, there are compelling arguments on both sides of the equation. And if I am someone who is teaching the next generations of politicians, maybe I wanna hear both sides of the equation so I can really start forming an opinion as to whether the death penalty is moral or not, whether there should be open borders or not. But there isn't such a thing. So therefore, what do you get? You get almost a 100% ideological rapture from the professors who then walk into class, they exhibit 0, epistemic humility. Right? This is an opportunity.
So that means being humble about what you know and what you don't know, being being They just push it. They just, oh, I've got an opportunity to brainwash these next generation of of idiots. Let me use the pulpit to do that and therefore, let me teach them that, socialism is great. Let me teach them that, whiteness is evil, that patriarchy, men are toxic, and so on. So then what do you expect the future generation of politicians to be? They are called Justin Trudeau. Right? I don't think Justin Trudeau was born, Maybe I'm being charitable, but was born dispositionally evil. But he is an exact product Of the education. Of education. So he literally is a walking manifestation of every parasitic idea that I discussed in The Parasitic Mind. He just apes it. He's a zombie. He's the wood cricket who's been zapped by. So in in your 30 years of education
[01:27:31] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
in in universities, would you say it's education or indoctrination? And you what you've witnessed as a professor and your fellow colleagues, are they educating
[01:27:42] Gad Saad:
or are they indoctrinating? So because I'm housed in the business school, because I teach things like consumer psychology and evolution in psychology and psychology decision making, I don't see it with my students. And by the way, I'm very disciplined as a professor in that I never bring in my outside public intellectual activities into the classroom. In other words, I don't that I don't go on a tirade against the policies of Justin Trudeau, in your college evolution psychology. Therefore, you can't come after me saying that I am indoctrinating you because I recognize that you signed up to learn about evolutionary psychology with me, not to and that's what I mean by being humble. Yeah. I have this privilege to be able to be training students how to think, not what to think. So I'll teach you about the scientific method. I'll teach you about how to conduct statistical analysis to understand data, to make better consumer decisions and so on. I I won't indoctrinate you. Now do other people do it? Not so much at the business school.
[01:28:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Again, because teaching finance is teaching finance. It's very different to you. There's no there's no ideological push on that. Exactly. But The other people who have gone to the positions of teaching that. Then They can. All bets are off. And they are. And they are. Absolutely. Which we're seeing. The consequence of now. Exactly. And how has university changed if you've been in that if you've been in the university for 30 years? How has it changed from when you started to work where we're at now? Where are we at now? Oh, wow. What a great question.
[01:29:13] Gad Saad:
It is so bad that you couldn't find a more prototypical professor than me. It's in my DNA. What's that mean, proto? Like, an exemplar of somebody who's always was meant to be a professor. Okay. But earlier I said I've only wanted to be 2 things. Yeah. You knew from the child. I knew from as a child. And now I'm thinking I still have a long way to go. I'm not gonna worry if I wanted to stay in academia. And I'm feeling like it's time for me to leave because it's it's so, painful to be in academia. So let me give you concrete examples of that. Yeah. So usually, when you want to do research, you will apply for research grants. There are many different sources for how you can get that money, but the typical grant granter will be the government. So they are they are programs set up, pools of money. Like, if I wanna do studying, how do hormones affect economic decision making, I'll put together this big grant.
Over the next 5 years, I need $400,000. Here are the reasons why I need it, so on. And then, hopefully, I win that amount, and I now have $400,000 for the next 5 years to do this research. I can hire doctoral students. I can hire a postdoc. I can hire undergrads. We can run these studies and so on. Well, a few years ago, the Canadian government decided, and my university and all other universities, that it is you have to write a I call it a die statement. I don't do DEI. I don't do diversity, inclusion, equity. I do diverse diversity, inclusion, equity. So it's it's the acronym is DIE because that's that's where merit and experts die. Exactly.
So you have to you have to as part of you put To get that grant. To get that grant. You've got to fit in with this argument. How can I write a book called Parasitic Mind where I rail against the cancer of diversity, inclusion, equity, and then when no one is looking? So from this side of the mouth, I'll say that DEI is a cancer, but then from this side of my mouth when nobody's looking, I'll play along, then I will be a false person. Then I'll be inauthentic. So guess what I've done, Tommy? I stopped applying for grants. Guess what? Because you wouldn't because you wouldn't get the grants unless affront to human dignity. Please give me $400,000.
[01:31:46] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Explain what DEI is. So someone sitting here for diversity includes to just explain what that ideology is, what that's being pushed across the West. So
[01:31:55] Gad Saad:
it goes back to what we talked about earlier, which is if there are differences in outcomes, those differences are inherently due to nefarious reasons for to bad things that happen. Racist. Right? So why aren't there as many indigenous people studying mathematics? Canada is systematically keeping down indigenous people from studying mathematics. Therefore, I, your benevolent government, must come in and make sure let me see the count. There needs to be at least 73 professors who are indigenous. Right? Oh, how come there aren't enough black? There must be that. Why aren't there enough transgender? How come there isn't a single transgender person of color who's a neuroscientist at Concordia? Oh, that must be a problem. So diversity, inclusion, and equity is the noble framework that tries to redress those wrongs. Which is where people are being promoted based on their racial sexual reasoning, but not on their not on their work. Exactly. Yeah. So if you remember earlier when I said when you apply for tenure, you have a dossier of 300 pages long. That doesn't say what my sexual orientation is. That doesn't say what my skin you is. That doesn't say, where I stand on LGBTQ.
It says, here is what I've done. Judge me on my merits. Well, now we no longer do that. Now the top universities of Canada and by the way, you would think that those are satirical pieces that God's side is coming up with to take the piss out of people. University of Waterloo, which is a university that is very well known for its engineering and computer science. It's kinda like the MIT of Canada or the Caltech of Canada. Well, they recently had a call for a Canada research chaired professor. So that's the highest possible chaired professorship because it's the Canadian government that is down that chair. So it's a very prestigious chair.
It was for a chaired professorship in artificial intelligence, one of the fields of computer science. And it said that the people who apply for it must be non binary, what's the other one? Transgender or what's the other one? 2 spirit. What's 2 spirit? 2 oh, 2 spirit means so non binary is I'm neither. Yeah. Okay. Two spirit is I've got elements of both male and female in me. So I'm not male. I'm not female. I'm a melange or both, right? So it's non binary, transgender. So imagine that the most elite engineering schools in Canada with the most prestigious professorship in Canada,
[01:34:52] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
the Endauer being the Canadian government The only person who's getting that seat is got a fit in that one of those brackets.
[01:34:57] Gad Saad:
It's it's astounding. Right? Now of I guarantee you that in 50 years, people will look back and say, how could this have ever come to be? What kind of ideological ritual is this? Or of course, they'll pretend that it never happened. Why is this dangerous? It's a complete attack on the most foundational values that have made the west the great society that it is. Right? It's individual dignity. It's individual merit. Why do we have a day called Martin Luther King Day? I mean, he didn't say something that was so astoundingly profound that my he said, remember the I Have A Dream? Yep. I I I don't have the exact quote of Fermi, but one day I I hope that my We based it on Not on not on her skin color, my daughter, but based on her. Right? That is now racist. That is literally anti dying. If Martin Luther King were to write his I have a dream speech as his die statement when applying for a grant, he can't get it.
He's a racist. So all this to say, you asked me what what do I think of academia? So I have to walk around in this hotbed of bullshit while always be now I am, to a fault, authentic and honest. Maybe that's why I became Gazza because I tell it like it is. But it's very hard to walk in that ecosystem and be the authentic guy that you are because you're constantly being coerced into scamming. What what do you mean giving not this thing happened at my university, but it happened at other universities where, know, there is reparative grading. Don't grade people based on what they got on their exam because you owe them reparations.
[01:36:38] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Right? By the way, that's not Hold on. So there's at a university, there's grading where a white person could have a test, a black person could have a test. What you're saying is that they they could get equal marks, but a black person get bare marks. And or, for example, you you'll have even at the entrance level. They have a less of an entrance level to get into university. They can not do not do well in exam. Lower level. Right? So they're lowering the level of acceptance just to match their rotor figures of how many blacks or how many minorities they would need. Do you know Amy Wax is? No. Amy Wax was trained as a neurologist, a brain physician. She decided
[01:37:13] Gad Saad:
I I don't I don't do medicine, went back, got a law degree, became a professor of law at University of Pennsylvania, one of the 8 IBD schools. She's got into all kinds of trouble. She she came on my show a few years ago because they were trying to cancel her, because she said things like, well, I'm a law professor. Right? I see the grades of the students, and consistently, the black students are doing worse. It wasn't a racist. It was a statement of fact. Well, that was marginalizing. That was racist. She needs to be fired. Right?
[01:37:50] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
In medical schools, we now have diversity, inclusion, equity. Right? For example Which means the quality of the person doing the job is getting less and less, which then becomes a pain. Not only that. So now we have
[01:38:02] Gad Saad:
don't grade medical students because, you know, it's very, very stressful to go to medical school. And if you're now going to create a competitive hierarchy It stresses them. It stresses them more. Because when I have a trauma surgeon who's going to operate on me, I wanna make sure that he's a flower child and that he wasn't too scared during his medical training. So what so what diversity, inclusion, equity does is it takes all of the laudable traits that we valued until 15 minutes ago in the west. Right? Honor, merit demolishes them. Excellent. And it demolishes them under the misguided unicorn of you that we need to create in social
[01:38:43] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
ads. How do you stop that? How do how do we as a society if we're looking at universities, and in fact, if you you've got children. Yeah? Yes, I do. If there's a parent here whose children are about to go to university, what advice would you give the kids? Because people I I always say now, people parents used to be worried about their kids going to university and getting addicted to drugs or drinking too much alcohol. Now I'd be worried about coming out of university, chopping off their penis or removing their boobs.
[01:39:08] Gad Saad:
Something big's gone on. Yes. What advice would you give for someone who spent 30 years in the university and seeing where we're at now? That's a great question. There are many ways. So one of the things that you and I talked about when we went for coffee yesterday, you you asked me, what's a honey badger? Yeah. And I explained to you that in chapter 8 of the parasitic mind, I have this kind of battle for cry where I implore people to activate their inner honey badger. And so let me explain to maybe your British viewers who may not know what a honey badger is. A honey badger has been ranked as the fiercest animal in the animal kingdom. It's the size of about a small dog.
[01:39:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
It's a badger, but the honey badger is a particular type of badger. Someone put it on the comment under your thing yesterday as well. Oh, that's true? Yeah. Yeah. Under your comment, someone said a bag like the honey badger. Oh, great.
[01:39:53] Gad Saad:
So it's the size of a small dog, but it is so ferocious, so fierce, it stands so tall despite the fact that it's the size of a small dog that it lives in a very dangerous ecosystem and in the urban age neighborhoods with hyenas and with, leopards and with lions, and yet lions will go to the other side of the street when they see the honey badger. Why? Because it is ferocious. So when I tell people activate your inner honey badger, I'm asking them to be ideologically committed in defending their principles. So to your question, if you are a parent and you know that at the at the school they're teaching that, of course, girls can have penises.
That's just a biological fact that girls can have penises. Well, then maybe you want to get engaged. Maybe instead of saying, well, let somebody let let Gad Sad serve as our, spokesperson. He's got big shoulders. He's a courageous guy. He's he's a cool guy. He'll handle it first. No. We all have a stake in the game. Some of us have bigger platforms. Some of us have fancier titles, but all of us can effect change within the small sphere of influence of our lives. If your professor says something that's insane, challenge them politely. Don't say, but if I challenge them, I might get a lower grade. You know, the guys who landed on Normandy, we we celebrated it, they were all 18 19 years old. They knew that most of them were going to be mowed down like little mosquitoes, and yet they all said, yeah. Yeah. Sign me up. So if they're able to sign up for that,
[01:41:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
surely you can muster the courage to say, hey, professor, really? Women can have 9 inch penises? Can you explain that to me using simple words? Right? But is it safe is it safer than you is it is it safer than the university for pupils to challenge that now? Do we have that system of freedom of speech within the universities for these discussions?
[01:41:43] Gad Saad:
I mean, it depends on the classroom. In some classes, the professors will be unethical and will say, you better not say that or else I'll grade you down. But I'd like to think that there still enough honourable people, whether it be in politics or in business or in universities, that if we can activate the courage of the silent majority, then we'll quickly realize that the crazy folks are actually in the minority. But the minority are the ones that have the loud voices. The minority are the ones that do the encampments. The minority are the ones that call death to Jews. Eventually, they'll become the minority, by the way, and then you would have lost the window of opportunity. But today, the numbers are such that if I I look at my emails, I receive a 1,000,000 emails. And let me summarize for you what every email is. You ready? Yep. And it's gonna show you how that's the problem.
Dear professor Saab, bunch of compliments, last sentence. But But if you decide to read my email in on your show Please keep my name out. Please keep my name out. Please remove my name. Send it away. I write back, dear so and so. Yep. Thank you for the lovely words. Don't you think that the last sentence of your email is exactly why we are here?
[01:43:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Yeah. How how do you because you're exactly that is my direct message. My direct message is exactly the same. And in the sense, so you walk the street as we walk the street yesterday, lots of people complimenting you. Yeah. Yeah? Just in one Everywhere. Yeah. In one little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So there was no animosity. No. There's thanking. People are thanking you. Yeah. Why are they thanking you?
[01:43:22] Gad Saad:
Because I'm exhibiting the courage that they're unwilling to exhibit. I mean, of course, there are things coming out of my mouth or that I'm writing that is unique to me. But I think probably the thing that impresses people the most is that you have the testicular fortitude, the courage to stand up and say what everybody behind you is thinking but is unwilling to say. Look, there's always some valid reason for why you shouldn't take risks. Right? And let let me let me contextualize it within academia. Okay? If you're a young professor who's not yet tenured, you will write to me and say I'm I'm a have to wait. I have to wait until I get tenure. When you get tenure, you then write to me and say, well, I'd like to apply for full professor. So I'm you already So I'm I'm gonna wait.
When you get full professor, you know, I'm thinking of going for a chair professor. Once I get that and I'm 73, that's when I'll let him. Do you like I might be in the short running for a prize. So I even though I'm chair professor. So there's always some castrated, cowardly reason why you shouldn't take the risk and why Gad Sainte should take all. And when I say Gad Sainte, I don't mean just me. I mean also Tommy Roberts. I mean all the people who have the courage to do it. Right? And so, no, I'm not sympathetic to your reason for why you shouldn't. And so people write to me for example, someone who's got a conscience will write to me and say, am I a coward for not writing what I truly think on my paper because I just want to get a good grade? And my answer is, dear so and so, yes, you are a cow.
[01:45:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
But do you okay. In that sense, because in that sense, do you see where there's been the fear element has been installed in everybody? Even if you just look at the truck. We're in Canada. Yeah. Look what happened to the truckers. Yeah? They weren't cowards. They stood up. What happened to them? Yes. Can we can you tell the story to people who weren't aware during COVID? I'd like your opinion on COVID as well. But do you understand? So even if I talk about myself here, I used a fake name. Yeah? And I wore a mask Yes. Because I was a coward. Yeah. Because I didn't wanna be the person sitting here. I didn't wanna be the person who If you're a coward No. I was. What I'm saying to people is I was you. Yes. So the people who wasn't speaking out, I was that person. Okay. The people who didn't wanna speak out, I was that person. I was scared to speak out. That's why I used a fake name. I used a fake name and wore a mask because I was scared.
And I had a legitimate reason to be scared. So all these people because I it's a struggle because because they are gonna lose their job. They are gonna and if you're if you're a man who's working hard in Canada, are you free to just say your opinion or do you have a high mortgage? Do you have 2 reliant kids on you? And are you gonna put that in jeopardy by speaking out? I got you. Yep. So I So let me backtrack. So I I don't wanna make it sound as though
[01:46:14] Gad Saad:
I'm unsuperfative No. For real concern. But how do we get them to talk? Right. Yeah. So then modulate your risk. Right? So here I'm going to go to a topic that I covered in my book after a person of mine, which was a book on happiness. So in in that, in that book, I have a chapter on what I call the inverted u. The inverted u basically means too little of something is not good, too much of something is not good, and the sweet spot is in the middle. And the one of the most famous philosophers to ever espouse that idea was none other than Aristotle. He talked about the golden mean, and so you're gonna see how I'm gonna dig into what we talked about in the second. So he said, look.
As a soldier, a warrior, if he is cowardly and therefore he hides behind the bushes, that's not good. If he is completely reckless in his bravery and gets killed in 4 seconds, then so you see why I'm going for this. So no one is saying Okay. That he a completely unmitigated, uncapulated risk taker. But even within whatever real concerns you have,
[01:47:24] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
you can still contribute to the battle. Yeah. Yeah. So Everyone has a role to play.
[01:47:28] Gad Saad:
Right. You you go to the pub with your buddies and they're starting to say bullshit, challenge them. Your boss is not there. Your professor is not there to give you a bad grade. But then there, by the way, you know what the answer will be? But then I'm afraid that they'll unfriend me. So that's what that's my point is that there is always a viable reason for why it shouldn't be you who speaks. Right? And that's called the diffusion of responsibility in psychology. Right? So oftentimes, when you see someone being accosted and attacked, the likelihood of someone intervening decreases the more people that are around. You would think it's the opposite. Right? The more people that they are around, the likelihood the greater likelihood that somebody will come. No. The more people that are around, the more we could each diffuse the responsibility.
I'm not gonna go into the dark alley to save her because there's another ten really courageous guys that will go. I think Tommy will go. He's a fighter. I I won't do it. And if there's 50 other Tommy looking guys, well, let them worry about it. So it's a very easy psychological trap to fall into for us to say, let someone I really have real concern. Look. Why don't I share the names of my children or where so I'm also doing what you're doing. Is is it that I'm being coward? No. How can I eat? But here's what I'm unwilling to do. When I go to sleep at night, okay, the only thing that allows me to fight against insomnia is to know that that day, I behaved in an authentic and non cowardly way. Otherwise You're happy with yourself? I'm happy with myself. So there is a calculus at the end of the day that says, was I got sad? Yes? Go to sleep.
[01:49:21] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
If I modulate what I am, then now maybe that's too exacting and too punishing of a quote of personal conduct. Maybe I should relax it. But guess what? You are Tommy Robinson because you probably have the same I've got this coming up now. I've got this code of conduct coming up right now. Yeah. Go. Yeah. Of course. But that that's a I've got a court case coming up for a film, my mate. There you go. And I do not want to bend on it because I won't be able to live for myself if I do. Oh, you know? Just because I just think, no. If I go to jail for 9 months or if I go to jail for 2 years, I won't be happy going to jail in that prison cell for the 9 months
[01:49:54] Gad Saad:
if I've been. Exactly. So so I don't the fact that you wore the mask and the fact that you changed your name, to me doesn't
[01:50:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
in any way suggest that you are cowardly. Then what yeah. It's just that you just in the real world, we have to mitigate your risk. For me, it's how do we get? Because this all changes if everyone speaks. You know the letters you receive, the emails you receive, when I was when I've been to prison, I receive 100 of them. Every day if I look at my messages now, there's 100 of them. So there's a massive feeling. I think we've just broke the back in in London on the June 1st. Yeah? Otherwise said, you see the people who are whispering about these problems. People who come up to you in the street and say I agree with you but I can't say it. It's not great that you're doing it. What will be the moment because people are whispering about it. I said, when that turns and that bubble bursts, I think people are gonna be screaming about it. Yeah? Yes. How do we get there? How do we get the person who's watching this now, who agrees with everything you say, who sees a society going down the dangerous path, who's worried about universities, who's worried about indoctrination? How do you get them
[01:50:50] Gad Saad:
to step out to to actually just start? You keep doing exactly what we're doing here. Right? I mean, you you could have not come to see me in Montreal. I could have not taken the hours that like, guess what? Nothing is more important than us sitting here. Exactly. However many people listen to this, if 1, 2, 10, 50, a1000, it's a battle of ideas. Right? Normandy was a battle with machine guns. This is a battle for And no one's asking you about war. Say that. No one's asking that. I always say, no, we're not asking you to go to war Right. Right. At the minute. Exactly. But in fact, we're trying to prevent that. Exactly. So sorry. To your point about how do we get the people to to to wake up. Yeah. The people I promise you will wake up. The problem is when. When and if it's too late. And if it's now even when it's too late, it might still be reversed by that great Cost. Cost. So we can resolve it yesterday and would have been peaceful, Today, a bit less peaceful. In a week, a bit less peaceful.
In 10 years, it's Beirut civil war again. Now when I used to say this for for now many decades, people would always say to me, stop being stop traumatizing, professor. Stop being so hyperbolic. Today, they write to me and say, oh, you're right. I'll tell you can I tell you a good story exactly the time when somebody who's come around? Yeah. I I mentioned this actually in in the parasitic mind where I talk about how Jews can be parasitized about the mortal dangers that faces them. So here's an example. This woman writes to me. This is around 2010. She, says, we're friends. We know each other. She said She Jewish? She's Jewish. Okay. And as a matter of fact, her grandparents were I don't know. I think they they perished in the Holocaust. Okay.
Or some of them. I don't know exactly how many. She writes to me an email and says, I am I've become very good friends with a student at McGill. We mentioned McGill earlier. She's a PhD student in Islamic studies, whatever. And she was telling me, god, that, oh, Islam loves the Jews. It's not true. It's a miss misrepresentation, all this bullshit. Well, you're you know your stuff about Islam. You're from the Middle East. You Arabic is your mother tongue. What's the verdict? Tell tell me what is it. K. So I thought, okay. That's great. She's reaching out to me to find out. So what I did, Tommy, is I shared with her, I think it's about a 22 20, 22 minute montage of clips from across the Islamic world of things that people are saying about the Jews. It's largely imams. Scholars. But it could be the Islamic scholars. It could be the politicians.
It could be, the kindergarten cartoons that are being shown across the Middle East. What they're showing in schools and Britain. Yeah. Okay. I mean stuff that is so bewildering and how genocidal it is that it would make Hitler and his friends go, oof, that seems like it's a bit too much due hatred for me. I mean, I'm Hitler, but this seems like it's way too much. Even I have limits. And look, I got Himmler next to me. I got Goebbels. Look at us. We're the Nazis. Okay? So I sent her that with no editorializing. No k. Watch this.
[01:54:07] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
What do you think she responds to me? Get ready. Well, she don't want to accept it. Like, most people haven't want to accept it. Because don't know why they don't accept because if she accepts it, what are you gonna do about it? Exactly. So she writes back to me and says,
[01:54:19] Gad Saad:
wow, you seem to be no different in your extremism than they
[01:54:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
are.
[01:54:26] Gad Saad:
So So But why showing you it? Exactly. So you asked me you you you engaged me. Yep. I just shared a clip in their words Yep. That makes me the extreme But this but this is how the whole of society is treated any of us talking about this Absolutely. For a decade. Absolutely. Yeah. Now here's the good news. She's come around. About After 2 months? After 7th. After watching 6 months of Caitlyn. Okay. She came back to me said, oh, I don't know if you remember.
[01:54:55] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Oh, I remember. It's in the book. Oh, you wrote about it. Okay. But I didn't mention it. The neighbor. Yeah. Of course. Okay.
[01:55:01] Gad Saad:
She goes, you know, I now realize that I was probably not fair to you and I now see what you mean. Oh, you see what you mean because they're coming in to see what you're saying. Your daughter for the gangrene. It's affecting you now. Exactly. So diabetes doesn't exist because I don't have diabetes. And nobody in my family has diabetes. So diabetes is not real. But once diabetes hits my family, then it becomes real. Right? So the problem is that regrettably, the architecture of the human mind is constructed it's it's constructed in such a way that it can it will find every possible means to ignore the problem until it literally has taken a chunk out of your ass. At that point, then I wake up and go, oh, my buttocks feel a bit lighter. Right? But until then, I don't see it. Right? So they're all seeing it now? They're all seeing it. I hope it's not too late, but the biography is destiny, Tommy.
[01:55:59] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And what is the demography for Canada? What's the demography for the west? Hor How how horrifying? Just so Because Yeah. How far how horrifying? So And what and what what can you do about the demography? So let me let me first mention just the fertility statement and the demographic statement.
[01:56:16] Gad Saad:
On average across the west, the replacement fertility rate is 2.17. In other words, in order for you to just maintain your population at 0 and no to to make up for the dead is you need to have 2.17
[01:56:30] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
children. We have 1.3. We
[01:56:32] Gad Saad:
we are we we're basically an asexuals. There's no sex. Okay. So we are so if nothing else changed, I'm not talking now about Islam. You're going down. Yeah. Okay. Now you have They used they used this as justification for immigration. Exactly. To keep the money bubble there as well. Exactly. So, the Islamists have have long said I mean, literally, they advertise it from the top of the mountain. We are and I and your whoever is listening to this memorize this. We are I'm speaking now as it as it As an Islamist. Yep.
We are going to conquer the west through three means. We're going to conquer the west through the womb of our women. Gaddafi Center. Thank you. We are going to conquer the west through Hizra. Hizra is the Arabic word for migration. Yep.
[01:57:28] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So some would you say some migration and the immigration we're seeing is to do with g is to do with their wanting to conquer areas. Not not just
[01:57:36] Gad Saad:
Absolutely. And I'll come back for that. Yep. And number 3, we're going to conquer the west by using your miserable freedoms against you.
[01:57:46] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And you will use your democracy to end your democracy. We'll use your democracy. Use your free speech too. When we are the victim
[01:57:52] Gad Saad:
when we are the minority, we wind victimhood all day. When we are the majority, we minority wise. Got it. Now to your earlier point about conquering. Mhmm. This I think you would know given your work, maybe some of your followers don't. Islam is binary in the way that it views the world. There are 2 camps in Islam. House of war, house of God. Dar al Haram and Dar al Islam. Haram in Arabic means war. Is the the the house, the the sun. Okay? Yeah. So people understand this isn't you putting it into 2 word worlds. No. This is Islam.
[01:58:33] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Islam separates the world in 2. House of war, house of God. Yeah? The the house of Islam
[01:58:39] Gad Saad:
is any land that is now ruled by Islam. So for example, currently currently, the OIC, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, is made up of 56 countries plus the Palestinian territories, so let's call it 57. Okay. That's the OIC, that's House of Islam. Okay. Everything else is under the House of War, and that needs to be brought under the unifying flag of Allah, the house of God. Okay. Now there's another point to be made here. Any territory that was once Islamic Spain. Right? What do what do Islamic jihadists say? We will reconquer because They have to. They have to. They have to. Once it has been ruled by Islam, by godly decree, that land no longer belongs to those filthy Christian Spaniards.
So so that has to go back to Islam. So now let's link it to the Middle East. Israel's got nothing it's got nothing to do with some Zionists from Hungary and Poland coming and taking over this beautiful land where all the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims live together. It is an existential doctrine issue. There cannot be a Jewish presence, a a a sovereign nation called Jewish land in the that's it is a cancer. And then because I've conquered it once. They've they've stayed. Yeah. They've stayed. Canonically, it's written here. I can go to the book. It cannot be. So it's not a fight between these little territories and where we draw. There's no Islam. There's no Judaism. It cannot be. Now we can tolerate you, potentially. There was a time where there were Jews living in Palestine, right, but we will at best we will tolerate you. But you having your own dignity, you being more powerful than us, that's an affront to every single thing that is taught in my holy book. It cannot be. It cannot stand.
[02:00:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And and on the Israel issue, since October 7th, have you, like this lady who's contacted you, that's caused an awakening? I've witnessed, I keep kept calling it a mass awakening of the public of people who hated me. The amount of messages I get saying, I hate you. I was told to hate you. Media told me to hate you. I hate you. Now I look at you and I listen to you and I think, well, you were right. Yeah. Are you do you see that? Are you hearing that? Are are people Yeah. So so to give people some encouragement Yeah. As well. Are you optimistic for the future or are you in a position where you think we're in real danger? Well, that's that's a great question. I have to be optimistic.
[02:01:26] Gad Saad:
Otherwise, it'll be impossible to get out of bed. Right? So so then what's the point of doing anything? Why why why why why we having this chat? It's all dead. Right? So I do believe that it can be turned around. But regrettably, I say this again not to violate your desire to have optimism, but I would I feel that the West is still unwilling to look in the mirror and implement the changes that will be required to turn this ship around. I about 2 or 3 weeks after October 7th, I put out a tweet that, to my surprise, went really viral. I I don't know how many What was it? 15, 20,000,000, where basically I was saying, I actually think that the way if we continue on this path, there's absolutely it's irrevocable. It's pancreatic cancer stage 4. It's death.
And the reason why I said that is because I said, look, every problem we we we always hear the cliche, the first step in solving a problem is to recognize that you have a problem so that you could then develop a strategy to solve the problem. Now imagine if you go to see your physician and he says you've got cancer, and then your answer is, well, there is no such thing as cancer, and if there is cancer, it's a Zionist, plot. And if there is real cancer and there is a cure, probably the Jews are withholding the cure. Right? Well, then you're gonna die of cancer. Well, what the west now I agree that there is an awakening. I don't know if the current awakening is enough to turn the ship around. In other words, it's going to take a truly cataclysmic change in order to turn around. So in the grand scheme, I'm optimistic and that there still is a solution.
I'm not confident that the west has the stomach to implement those solutions.
[02:03:11] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Have you been surprised? Have you personally even though everything you know, been surprised by the level of hate in the west in universities on the streets since October 7th? I have. And for me to say I have And when you're already aware of the problem. When I'm already aware when I have my own personal history with Jew hatred.
[02:03:29] Gad Saad:
As a matter of fact, what has amazed me is the the varied sources from which the Jew hatred is coming. So historically, okay, I can I can rest assured that Mohammed and Mustafa are going to send me the Jew hating stuff, But it's not just the Islamic guys that are sending to me? The academic progressive left is also sending it to me. Right? So Do you think that surprised a lot of Jews? It has and some of them are awakening because, by the way, a lot of the progressive academics are Jewish. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they were part of the parasitized thinking. And then the third group, so there's the the Islam folks, the academic left progressive folks, and then the the Jews won't replace those kind of Neo Nazi types. Now they're they've all banded in deciding that I am the architect of the genocide in Gaza, and so this kind of hate I get is simply just bewildering. Right? I mean, I think I mean, yes, I can use humor and satire, but I think I'm very measured. I distinguish between individual Muslims and Islam. I'm very professorial and yet I am, you know, I'm a rat. I'm a vermin. I'm poison. And this is what you're personally getting caught? All all the time. And you've said nothing that's Nothing. You just stated? I just state facts. I share literally facts which you could look at those facts and say, here's where you're wrong, here's where you're right. Right?
By the way, I just to give you a sense of the type of orgiastic Jew hatred that I get. So I this will resonate with you because you come from that world. So I shared a screenshot of 1 of the grooming gangs that was caught in Huddersfield.
[02:05:22] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Okay. Huddersfield. That's the one I went out for. Okay. So so yeah. So that's no one should be hearing this more than you. So use I shared it. All the images of their faces. All their faces. 28. And their names. And their names. And their names. And their name. Mohammed. Mohammed. Mohammed. So I've sent from a call, which is a national system. No. That's just named Mohammed,
[02:05:41] Gad Saad:
but more more than 90 more than 30% are from the noble 90% from followers of Islam. 90%. Of the Huttas Huttas field only. Right? 9% of all of them. Of all grooming gangs. All grooming gangs. I actually thought it would have been a bit higher, but okay. Let's go with 90%. Yeah. So I shared that. And in my usual sarcasm, I said, I'm not smart enough to be able to see a unifying theme across these 20 guys. Could somebody who's got big data analytic brain help help out this poor dumb professor to try to see what it is? Okay. Guess what the answer I got? What? Who who who's the cause of all the grooming gangs? The Jews. Why? Because they're bringing them in. Yes.
[02:06:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
The Jews are bringing them in. That's why he's Tommy Robinson. Because this because I I get this. K. I get this all the time. So I I get that most of my hatred now is because I'm a Zionist race trader. Me. Exactly. So the hatred, not even from the Muslims. It's not coming from the Muslims anymore towards me. Exactly. I'm the race trader. I'm the race trader who refuses to talk about the facilitator. Exactly. So I I created a new mathematical equation. It's beautiful. So when 3
[02:06:53] Gad Saad:
Mohammed's rape, gang rape your daughter, the real rapist is Mordecai. So the equation is Mohammed plus Mohammed plus Mohammed equals Mordecai. Beautiful social justice equation, new ma new form of mathematics. So when I can't get the father or the prototypical father of a raped girl to direct his ire to the people who raped his daughter, but that he really needs to target it to the real rapist who's the Jew.
[02:07:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
How can the west be safe? I don't I don't I don't think any of the fathers or any of the British public per se. I think that a very vocal minority are the ones who are I do. Who are saying this. But do you Growing minority. But do you think it's it's a big enough of a cognitive trap? Well, they've all come together now. They've all come together very vocally. Very vocally and even as we're talking about on x with Elon Musk. Joe, why I was deleted from Twitter in 2017. Why? My statement said 90% of criminal gang convictions are Muslim males and 30% are called Mohammed. Fact. That statement come from a report from a a Muslim think tank. Yeah. That was my reason for them removing me for hate speech. So facts in 2017, but I had become hate speech.
[02:08:13] Gad Saad:
Thankfully, I'm back. Thankfully, I was getting my account back. Well, I saw yesterday you're you're too modest to say it publicly, but I saw your analytics. It's insane. And I thought that my analytics were impressive and you've worked the plan. So that shows
[02:08:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
that there's a need for this conversation. That the public are desperate for this conversation, that the public that we we as a society have to have this conversation. Because for 5 as I said, since censorship, since my censorship's early, we had built I become a voice or we'd have become an, and I'd say a symbol. So it wasn't about it's not essentially when people chant the name Tom Robinson, it's not about an individual called Tom Robinson. It's about a movement of people who feel voiceless, you know, who feel voiceless, who are desperate for someone to have this conversation and say things that need to be said because they desperately seen their culture and their country disappear before their eyes and with little hope. But that essentially, any anyone who has this conversation was censored or silenced and
[02:09:09] Gad Saad:
attacked under hate speech. Attacked as hate figures. Yeah. Boy, it must have felt liberating once you were able to get back your voice. I went well, essentially,
[02:09:19] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
yeah, massively. I felt like I was down and someone just picks me up. I said, go on. There you go. Then I'll just have a look back for 6 months every day back and let's go. But when I say let's go, it's because, what do you see to some people? Because I I had this conversation years ago, 13 years ago, to my now ex wife to say to her, the consequence is so terrifying. I I can see where this goes. Yeah. And I knew it 15 years ago. And I knew it because I grew up in Luton. So I know where this path takes this country. Yeah. And that scares me. Not the frets. Yeah? I've got 3 children.
Okay? I know where this goes. I know the way this takes us. Yeah? And now, as a professor in university, with the scenes we've seen in universities towards the average Jewish person or Israeli person or support of Israel, how do you feel about yourself? Yeah. Because you have but you're you're a you're you're outspoken. Yeah. You've gained quite a reputation Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In this field of being outspoken. Does that worry you? Yes. So this In 2024, let's talk about Canada. 2024.
[02:10:31] Gad Saad:
Montreal, Canada. Yep. Look. My university has been colloquially called Gaza University for over 20 years. So it's not something that today was discovered post October 7th. The the dynamics of my university have been that the writing has been on the wall for quite a while. Now the average student can go about their business merrily without facing any trouble,
[02:10:58] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Like, imagine if Jewish students who are anonymous. Right? Nobody knows who they are. Because they don't come out and say, you know, they don't have anything. Which is a sad state of affairs. Exactly.
[02:11:07] Gad Saad:
They are afraid to go to my university. As a matter of fact, a couple of months ago, I was speaking to a senior administrator, on a Zoom call, and that person said to me, straight looking at my face via Zoom on Zoom, that there is no such thing as true hatred at our at our university, which took me I couldn't believe she she was saying that. Well, about a month later, the president of my university was summoned in front of the Canadian parliament as part of a testimony with 3 other presidents where they each had to admit, including the president of my university, that there was massive Jew hatred at our university. Campuses. So now this past semester, I was fortunate enough to be on sabbatical leave. Sabbatical leave simply means that after every few years, a professor can put in an application to be absolved of their teaching duties so that they can just do research, write their next book, and so on. So I've been, the last few months, away from campus, so I didn't have to face that campus.
But September is coming around, and I have to go back to teaching. As a matter of fact, yesterday, my wife and I were sitting and saying, well, what what are we gonna do? What what's what's the strategy here? The previous semester, which would have been in fall 2023 when October 7th has just happened, I was still teaching. My wife was so concerned about my safety that she was coming to the courses with me. She would walk behind me so that there was never someone behind me. Keep her going back. And I made You saw my wife. Yeah. She's not a 6 foot 5 MMA fighter that looks intimidating. Quite the opposite. Quite the opposite actually. Rather feminine and beautiful and not very intimidating.
Well, she would she would she would sit the last seat next to the door coming into the classroom To see who comes in? To see who comes in. Now is it does it make sense that a professor in the 21st century brings his lovely wife as their bodyguard? Just keep an eye on them safely. It's insane. And so I don't know what the solution is going to be for me. Frankly, I don't I don't mind saying it openly. We were looking at various escape strategies. It it gives me great pain to say that because I would have loved to be able to continue my career here. I don't feel as though it is the tenable option over the long run.
[02:13:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And if this if this isn't tackled, say this isn't tackled because no one's tackling it. We're seeing this in universities across the whole west. Yeah? If this isn't tackled, what does a university look like in 5 years' time? When we see the screams of Al Arabah, we see all this going on in the universities now. What is it gonna be like? Will there be any Jews in university? Not many. No. Exactly. Will Jewish parents be sending their kids to university? What? Will Jewish parents still be staying in Montreal? Will Jewish is this and then and because people aren't happy with Israel. Many people wanna talk about Israel. Is there a safe place for Jews to go as this as this grows and grows and grows, which is gonna But the problem is so you'll pick up and go somewhere else
[02:14:08] Gad Saad:
until the monster comes also there. Right? So for example, I was approached by a university in Florida that wanted to hire me, and Florida certainly seems today more meaningful to be safe. I mean, you could carry a gun in Florida. They're not as insane about their tolerance and all this stuff. So it'll give you a respite, but the endemic problem is still there. Is the west, whether it be Britain or Norway or Denmark or Canada or the US, is the west willing to stand up and say, look, all cultures are not equal. That doesn't make you a racist. Look, you and I are both human beings, but one of us is taller, one of us is more aggressive, one of us is kinder, one there are differences between us. Same applies at the cultural level. Cultures are not the same. They're not interchangeable parts. Some cultures are defined by a certain level of acceptable, aggression that in other cultures is viewed as negative. Right? In Japan, it's a conformist society. In the West, it's an individual society. So the idea that all cultures should be equal and should be treated as though they're equal is an insane idea. By the way, it comes from a parasitic idea called cultural relativism.
Who are you to judge whether other cultures cut off the clericism of their 5 year old bodies? That's racist. You have no right to say that. You there are no absolute moral truths. Bigot. Okay? Well, that can't be. We have to inoculate people against these kinds of parasites. Yes. The West has historically had a set of beautiful ideas, there is a lot to be proud of in the West, anybody is welcome to try to apply to be a member of the West as long as you don't violate a millimeter of our foundational values. The second that you violate 1 millimeter, your your ass is back to Yemen before you could say a long walk button.
Which is what needs to happen. That's what needs to happen. So I'm not, you know, I don't you know, people will write to me, oh, but you know, the my friend is Muslim. He's lovely. I don't need to be lectured about that. I have more Muslim friends than most people will ever meet by virtue of being from Lebanon. Right. I I grew up playing soccer. Nobody's questioned. There are very nice Jews. There are very nasty Jews. There are Jewish pedophiles. There are Jewish honorable people. That statement applies to every race and every grouping of people. We're talking about an ideology.
Does Islam permit for the greater flourishing of individual liberties or not? If the answer is yes, then we need to turn everything into Islam. If the answer is no, then maybe we need to mitigate the influence of Islam in the west. It's as simple as that.
[02:16:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And do you see that happen?
[02:16:54] Gad Saad:
Which part? If you want me to, lie to your face, yes, I see optimism. You know, there's going to be a new change. Frankly, I go I I What about the voting patterns in Europe recently?
[02:17:05] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
The recent voting patterns of Europe. What about?
[02:17:07] Gad Saad:
What about Le Pen? Yes. But are they what what are they going to simply stop mass immigration or are they gonna reverse some of the trends? They need to de Islamize.
[02:17:18] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Exactly.
[02:17:19] Gad Saad:
If they do the de Islamization, then I think there is hope. Now again, don't get me wrong because people will write to me and say, but you know there was a period when Islam was the cradle of select of science and so on. No one is questioning that any grouping of What was that? Or did they take over cultures that already had? Yeah. The advancements of that? That that is historically true as well. I'm trying to be charitable here. Okay. Okay? But the reality is is that Islam as an ideology has a certain set of tenets. Some of the tenets are totally harmless. They're spiritual tenets, and that's great. Other tenants are either congruent with western liberal values or they're not. Right? There there's no other option. Right? If they are incongruent, then it can't make sense that 20 minutes from here there could be an imam at the local mosque spewing stuff that would make your skin crawl, but it's allowed because it's religious freedom. We can't stop it. What do you mean you can't stop it? It? There is a thing called sedition. Right? Sedition is when you are spreading stuff that is treasonous to the society. Right? Now it doesn't somehow gets a get a pass because it's a religion.
So the minute that we lose our reflex to protect religion because it is gauche, it is inappropriate to criticize someone's religion. The minute that we recognize that nothing is off limits, then I think we could flip the script.
[02:18:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So my whole my whole activism, I saw Islam as the biggest threat. Yeah? Mhmm. Always. Then come about COVID. Then come about lockdowns. Okay. Then come about vaccinations. Yes. Then I started looking and seeing a bigger enemy or dangerous. What's your opinion, from Gadsad in Canada? We've because look, I looked at the the whole world watch what happened in Canada. Yes. Yeah. Where I think can I think the Canadian truckers probably changed the narrative for the world at that time? I was sitting at home cheering them on. I think most of the people were. It took everyone was waiting for someone to stand up, and that started here at that time. But what was your opinion with COVID when it happened and your government's response,
[02:19:23] Gad Saad:
to all? I'm gonna answer it by giving you an anecdote. Did you know that after most of the sort of world have opened up to COVID, we still had a night curfew in Quebec where you couldn't walk your dog after a certain Towing. Time. Like it goes away at certain time. Yeah. So let's let's try to see here if you understand this. So it's minus 20. You're living in a residential neighborhood. Now it's minus 20 meaning that it's not like there is a BLM riot. Or where by the way, if there's a 100,000 people with BLM, you can't spread the COVID. That's just the fact of the virus. If you're progressive, you can't spread it to each other. So if I walk outside my house in a residential area, it's minus 20, there's nobody else in sight, and I need to have my dog do their business.
There is an overlord that has said, past 8, you can't do that. Now, by the way, they quickly reversed that one. But that doesn't matter. The fact that the institute that that you put it in. So now I don't unlike other folks and maybe yourself included, I don't think that the COVID thing came from a diabolical cabal of Davos guys that says let's take. I think it's it's more fundamental than that. Human beings have historically been ruled by author authoritarian, Yeah. They take they they they taste the power and they want it. Exactly. Control, they need it. So if you look at the buffet of histories that have the buffet of societies that have existed throughout history, the western freedom is a small bleep on the radar of authoritarianism.
Our default mode of government It's control. It's control. And so all that happened in the west now is that there was a mechanism by which the natural reflex of the few feudal lords to take over, they said, We can finally return to the natural order of things where we sit on top of the castle Tell you what to do. And we tell you what to do. So I don't think it's a concerted cabal in Switzerland with, you know, Klaus, whatever. Schwab. Schwab. I think it's the natural inclination is if I am leader, I'm gonna f your life And now COVID, thank God, has given me that opportunity. Let's ride that train all the way to its culmination.
So so, yes, I was concerned. I was frustrated. I lost. By the way, when my when Parasitic Mind came out, it was in October 2020.
[02:22:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
It started.
[02:22:04] Gad Saad:
In the middle of COVID now, I was fortunate enough to be able to promote the book on Zoom, but I ended up losing huge opportunities to go on gigantic shows who wanted me To talk about the book. To talk about the book. Because Justin Trudeau had decided that I can't leave. So
[02:22:22] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
I'm with the truckers on this one. And with the truckers, can we explain the truckers,
[02:22:27] Gad Saad:
they literally had bank accounts seized? They had their bank accounts. Not only their bank accounts seized, if you had donated money
[02:22:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
to support the Oh, they took the money as well, didn't they, GoFundMe?
[02:22:39] Gad Saad:
They just took the money. Yeah. No. It's it's breathtaking. It's communism. It yeah. And and and of course, but just to show that he involved the Emergencies Act. Which is now been proven illegal. Right. Exactly.
[02:22:50] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So it's it's it's mind boggling. Based on science, any of it as a scientist? Based on science, any of it? Almost none of it. As a matter of fact, I mean, Fauci, as you know, has come out and said 6 Just made it all up. Just made it just made it eye. But but you know what? We can't laugh. We laugh about it, but people had to miss their live loved ones while they died.
[02:23:09] Gad Saad:
People were locked up. People are still ill from the consequences of it. Well, and I look, I was fortunate enough that that even though I had to pivot in a very hard way to change all my courses to be on Zoom, I my income was not taken from me. Damn. What about the millions of people who lost their businesses? How are you how are you paying themselves? Yes. My children could have had a better education were they not masked and were they not on Zoom and so on. But in in comparison to all of the people who suffered during COVID, I came out pretty unscathed. I didn't lose my income. I was still able to be a professor. I was still teaching. Nothing really changed. If anything, I avoided traffic of having to go on campus. But think of the millions of people whose lives were entirely eradicated and no one has
[02:23:57] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
paid No one's face no one's face consequence for it. In fact, Trudeau has been voted back in since then. 3 times. Since then. Now what's going on with the public? It's been 3. So here What's kind of Can I tell you, this is a
[02:24:10] Gad Saad:
do you have a small thing? You give me like a a a prop, and okay. Let's take this one. Let's suppose that this is, the cork of a wine bottle. Yep. There is an Arabic expression that says getting drunk simply by smelling the cork of the wine bottle. Now what it means basically is that you are of such weak constituency that you don't actually need to drink the the wine to get drunk. You just take a whiff and you're already drunk. Now I apply that principle, and you'll see in a second one how. So look, I'm gonna smell now the cork of Justin Trudeau. Are you ready? Yes. Oh, he's tall. He's got beautiful hair. He says some cute and pathetic stuff.
He must be good. Now let me smell Donald Trump. You ready? He's disgusting. I hate him. He's a pig. He speaks in a brawling he speaks in a Queen's way, brawling way. Now Now why am I saying all this? Because people simply get drunk by the cork of the image of the politician. They don't do the hard work of saying I love Justin Trudeau because of these seven policies. As a matter of fact, I used to ask people because I was so baffled that you couldn't see just what a gigantic shmuck he was then and and the answer would be, well, frankly, it's because I love to smoke pot and illegalize pot.
Frankly, it's because I mean, he's gorgeous. By the way, I don't think he's gorgeous at all. As a matter of fact, do you know who Megyn Kelly is? Yeah. Megyn Kelly is a very high profile journalist. We've we've become good friends. I've been on her show a few times. She's been on Of course, for, like, the point of shave squandchers. She's gorgeous. She the reason why I'm mentioning her is because when she came on my show and we were talking about our respective disdain for, Justin Trudeau, she said something that made me even love her more. She said, I don't what woman wants that guy on top of her? What woman want that guy can't handle in the bedroom. I said, I love this one because she's a real woman.
She she sees what masculinity is. She gets it. She and she she assumes her masculinity and appreciates a truly masculine man. You know who are the women who love Justice Trudeau? They were my middle aged female professors, colleagues, who on my on my personal Facebook friend, face page, were writing things that if it had been a male colleague of mine writing this about female politician Yeah. Big class as a hashtag issue out. It's done. Yeah. But they were able to say, my god. He's dreaming. I'm having nighttime emissions thinking about him. He is amazing. What an orgasm. Really? That's why you picked him? But now you didn't pick him only once by the way, I should mention, in a sense, it's unfair to say that Canadians picked him. Because of our parliamentary system, You have to Policy has picked them. At no point that they more than, I think, 39% voter firms. So the great majority And how many what what percent of people actually vote as well? I so I don't know that number, but you're right. It's gonna be a minority. It's gonna be a minority. Minority of a minority. So that's one of the the faults of a parliamentary system is that even though you might have a great majority of people who don't like you, you can end up serving 3 mandates as prime minister.
[02:27:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Trump or Biden?
[02:27:42] Gad Saad:
Until I just saw a poll yesterday where apparently now, Biden is 2 points ahead. What? Yeah. Yeah. It just came out. Now Of course, it's CNN poll. No. No. No. Actually, it was like a non woke poll. No. So that really stopped me in my tracks because
[02:28:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
if after all you're seeing And Biden gets back in, we're finished. We deserve to be finished. I ask if it's legitimate.
[02:28:08] Gad Saad:
Of course. I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of scamming and cheating and so on. But by the way, speaking of the inability of people to alter their decisions, I spoke last week in Toronto at a Jewish event. The organization is called Pefzik, and I started off by reading out I had just seen this tweet, and so this wasn't going to be part of my my lecture. In 2020, the difference in American Jews in voting for Biden versus Trump was 38 points higher for Biden. No. In 2024 so just remember the number 38.
[02:28:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
What is it? So it could be higher or lower? It could be the same. Which one is it? It's gonna be lower. It's it's it's gonna be less people voting for Biden.
[02:28:58] Gad Saad:
Yes. By by the same as black community are all shifting towards Trump. It's the exact same number, 38 points. So let's let me let me So let me explain. Let me explain. So in 2020 Yep. 30% more Jews voted for Biden than Trump. Okay. Then 4 years happened Yep. Including October 7th. Yep. Any human being with a functioning brain takes in new information Yep. And then revises their position in light of incoming information. And they haven't. When it comes to Jews, it the needle hasn't moved by a single percent. What? Therefore, you deserve what you get.
Yeah. The people that's what people can sound with the people who voted for it. What's the so the Jewish vote hasn't changed? Not not 1%. Woah. The the only thing that's changed, I think it was like 30 68 to 30, and now it's 61 to 23. So so the the percentages that I've but that same 38 point difference. By the way, I was recently asked But the black community has changed? But I don't so I don't know I I don't know what makes the The Jewish community. Somehow I think somehow they're unable to extricate themselves from we are progressive. We are empathetic. We are tolerant, the Democrats, and of course they're not. But the Democrats are the party, they're the liberal, they're the progressive. By the way, I've had a lot of people in Canada tell me, I vote liberal because I'm a Liberal person. I say but The Liberal Party Young Liberal. Exactly. Are you aware that the Liberal Party is about as illiberal as you could get? No. No. No. But there's there's the word liberal in the title of the party. Yeah. I can't vote conservative.
I'm not a conservative person. But that speaks to
[02:30:48] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
getting drunk by the court. Get drunk by the court. Right? It's just a label and I get drunk by the label because thinking is too hard for me and therefore, I better just get drunk by smelling the cord. I'm liberal. I vote this one. Because we've seen lots of the progressive Jewish groups in the the hierarchy in the UK who would have condemned us, you know, and would always have their pictures taken for for diver for diversity, which are out of touch, I'd say, with the mainstream Jewish population. The mainstream Jewish population are awake now in the UK. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those same groups you start after October 7th, it's like, well, where are the where are the Muslims you have any pictures taken with? Yeah. Well, they're marching down the road calling for the genocide of the Jews. Right. So so have those folks come around to you? A 100%. Oh, good. Well, no. No. Not those no. Not the hierarchy because the hierarchy were the elitist group groups within the Jewish They don't wanna be associated. They don't wanna be associated, but they're still so out of touch. So if I if and and essentially my arrest on October to on November 26th when I went to the anti Semitism rally to report, I received an amazing reception from the Jewish community. Yeah. Everywhere I go from the Jewish community. Amount of support I've received since since since But it's the riffraff. It's not the elite. Yeah. What I'd say is that not yeah. The mainstream Yeah. Jews. Yeah. Not the elite, but the elite are the same as our elite. Not like whether they're Jewish elite or whether they're Boris Johnson elite. Yeah? Yeah. They're the elite and they don't care about us anyway. So Well, they're out of touch with the the average community.
[02:32:10] Gad Saad:
Exactly. Well, one thing one thing that I take from a lot of your questions that you you have this, undying optimism, which I think you need to have. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to to do your work. Right? Yeah. I have not well,
[02:32:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
maybe it's desperation after the optimism. Maybe I'm just wanting it. Maybe we keep wanting it. But, no, I have that in the sense of I think I think my fingers on the pulse and it has been for many years and I didn't have the optimism 6 months ago. Yeah. I have the optimism now that people who hated me don't hate me. People who didn't want to listen to this debate are now listening in massive numbers. I think on the last one we had 900,000 people watching live. Yeah? 900,000 watching live. That's a million people who are and and I look back through I think I went on Good Morning Britain with Piers Morgan. It was the most viewed show they've ever had. Yeah? The public need this debate. The public want these discussions. These public are desperate for someone to say what needs to be said. And all those people have been censored and thankfully now there's a movement or more there's more commentators now having these discussions than ever before. Right. Than ever before. The commentators who used to condemn me are now sitting saying exactly what we're saying. So you're getting invited to this platform. No. In the past, you would have never been invited. No. People who are associating me that wouldn't have, but certain people who would have condemned me and now sitting on TV and I'm watching them parrot what I was saying 10 years ago. Yeah? But now it's They're allowed to say it. Yeah. They're allowed to say it but we were far right hooligans for for saying the same. But I think there's a there have And I can gauge by the reception I receive walking down the street everywhere. Yeah? So I can see, well, the public are awake. The public are feeling this. Yeah. And again, I'm not optimistic that there's there's a solution without chaos.
There's gonna be chaos. Regrettably, I agree with you. I'd rather the chaos be our us trying to sort the problem out than October 7th situations across Europe Yeah. And across the West. How how long do you think we are away from the October 7th across Europe? Well, we we were 2 weeks away from it last week in the UK when 3 Muslims were arrested with machine guns. Right. We've stopped many many attacks. I think that you'll be able to rewind this when it happens. They're gonna hit a school. They're gonna hit a school. They're gonna hit a school. Probably a Jewish school. Yeah. So that's what I think. And and they found plans. Muslim terrorists will stop the plans in London of Jewish schools. Yeah. They'll hit a school. And I keep saying, what will be the moment? There'll be a defining moment in history to change the directions of our nation. In Northern Ireland, it was bloody Sunday. That changed it. Something will happen in Europe. Who knows what it's gonna be? If it wasn't Ariana Grande concert when they blew up 25 children, if that wasn't enough, if Lee Rigby be beheaded on the street wasn't enough, and after each of these incidents so Lee Rigby got beheaded on the street.
A soldier was beheaded. Yeah. The late and this is where the lying corrupt politicians come in. Yeah. A soldier is beheaded. The the the killer, Michael Adebelardo, handed 52 verses from the Quran to a woman in the street that he says forced him to do that attack. The next day, Nick Clegg stood who was a deputy prime minister, stood on TV and said, in the Quran it says, if you kill one man you kill all of humanity. Of course. That's what he said. They didn't carry on reading. Obviously, anyone who knows the verse says unless they cause mischief. What was the verse that Leerby's killer handed over that he says forced him to do it? It was that exact first. And that exact first was it from his from his opinion, Lee Rigby had been part of an invading British army into a Muslim land who had caused mischief.
So and and it says if you cause mischief, you must be executed, have your hands and feet carved. But our politicians, I think so many people now are waking up to the fact since COVID, especially, COVID has helped massively. The lies of the media, the lies of the politicians, the lies of all of them got the open border immigration which goes against the interests of the British public, the Canadian public, the the chaos and the level of violence and ferocity that they're bringing in and importing into our countries. So, yeah, I am optimistic, but I, I'm optimistic that many more people are having these conversations. I'm optimistic when I sit and see many more discussions being had like this because more free speech or more conversation on this issue is what's needed without the labeling of racist or Islamophobia or extremist or hate preacher. Did did any of those insults ever get to you or you just really go like this? No. They got to me. Yeah. No. They got to me in the sense of, they got to me in the sense, I wear the hat proudly of being against his Islamic ideology. Yeah? Because I'm if I walk down the street tomorrow and someone wants to kill me, I'll my head's up. When I when I spoke out against Black Lives Matter as an ideology, as a Marxist ideology, I remember walking down the street because it blew up in the UK for me. And I remember seeing some black people look at me. And I remember seeing them look at me differently, you know. And I thought, I'm not wearing that hat. I don't because I'm brought up in a town where most of my best mates are black. Yeah. I don't care about black and white. But I then had then I was wearing that hat as as being viewed by some. Right. But that's gone full 360 as well. So whereas I was hated for that little period of time, black community had gone on to realize it was a Marxist scam. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't to do with black lives. The last thing it was to do with black lives. But did the names I think it got to me in the sense of, with my kids.
Possibly saying you. Does it did it worry your children? Does it oh, it worries my children. Even I had my son message me this morning about jail again. So or their their worries. And then they them at school and the people classing their dad as a racist. Difficult. Yeah. Difficult for me to see if there's there was 30 kids in the class, my son my son's school. 29 were getting invited to a party. He didn't he never got invited. Ever. And I see that and I think he's getting judged. And how he how does as a child, how has he dealt with that? So but that's the reason that they bring these labels in to to make you toxic, to make people scared, to make people not wanna associate with you. I think, again, we've we've gone through that now. The public don't care in the UK about the media. No one buys the media. No one cares what they say. I I laugh sometimes. I mean, I think I've done our last demonstration. The Daily Mail run a real negative article about us. And I was on stage and said, like, if your articles had 68 shares, not just a 1000 people are watching. No one's reading your article anymore. Your monopoly of power is gone. Yeah. Your smear campaign is gone because there are so many citizen journalists now. Well, I mean, that's why when when when Elon Musk, you know, bought Twitter He could be the biggest this could be remembered as the biggest savior of freedom of speech in his life.
[02:38:36] Gad Saad:
Very shortly after he bought it, I did a clip on my on my channel, on my show, where I basically argued that of all of the great entrepreneurial initiative that he's taking, collectively, all of them together pale compared to what he did with us. Yeah. Yeah. For the future. Yeah.
[02:38:54] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
That's that's Yeah. Give us back what would has been taken that they want, and they're not there. Censorship isn't about stopping what I say or what you say. It's about stopping what they hear. Exactly. And Elon Musk gives us about that platform.
[02:39:07] Gad Saad:
Hail to Elon. A 100%. What's your opinion of Elon other than that? Oh, I I love him. I mean, we've we've, we've actually gotten to know each other very well. We've we've met. He's invited me down to Austin. He's been a big supporter of my work and Wow. A person like mine. So, yeah, it's it's wonderful to have him on on your side. And, you know, what was really nice about Elon, which people may not know, is, you know, we we sit down together and it's there's no pretense. You you would never he he doesn't he doesn't act haughty. He's not. It's very personable. It's not he's he's
[02:39:47] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
he's lovely in every possible way. And for me, when I look at someone like Elon Musk, same as Donald Trump, I think he didn't need to do this. He was loved. Yeah. So Elon Musk, he was loved. Yeah? No one there was no negativity about him, really. Yeah? Yeah. Now with Brit doing this, he's opened himself up to facing a backlash or facing an onslaught of hate. Yeah. Which he didn't need to and spent £44,000,000,000
[02:40:05] Gad Saad:
to to to do it, but didn't need to do it. Absolutely. And and, you know, It's gonna take people like that. All of these guys, I think, are truly honey badgers. Right? Because you could sense that look, it it affects all of us what we are reviled and What was it? Who is this comment fuck yourself to? I love that. Who is it to? The Disney. The Disney. It was about Disney. Yeah.
[02:40:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
If it's not clear, go fuck yourself. Fuck yourself. Yeah. To do with advertisement. Because that's how they rule everyone. That's how they manage to censor everything because they in the corporations
[02:40:36] Gad Saad:
from the top down, the ones controlling what we hear and see. But that's that's what I think that's what Mason Elon Musk. Right? Or or any historical figure. Right? What what makes somebody historic, right, is that they they're not a fence sitter. They don't equivocate. They don't play both sides, but but that's what politicians do. Right? Christopher Hitchens, who hails from Who's brilliant. Right? I mean, this is a guy that you were I mean, it was such a thrill to listen to him. Even if in cases where you might have disagreed with someone's positions, Iraq war, yes, no, we don't we can discuss.
But boy, was he a honey badger. I mean, if you came to a debate with him, you you you better Douglas Douglas Murray? Douglas He's in the horn? By the way, he was here. He was just here much more. I heard. Yeah. We were supposed to to meet and we we didn't get a chance to meet, but, Douglas Murray is another one. All of these guys share the same sort of immunity from caring about what people think and they just forge forward and that's why they become the the figures that they become.
[02:41:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
You've named a lot. How many books have you wrote, Ed?
[02:41:42] Gad Saad:
5. 5. Can you tell us what the names of them and where people can get? Oh, thank you. So the first one was in 2007, The Evolutionary Basis of Consumption. This is a book explaining how you apply evolutionary psychology to consumer behavior. That was an academic book, so it's a bit more technical. My next book was an edited book called Evolutionary Psychology of the Business Sciences. Then then I started writing more for the masses, for the Yeah. Yeah. For the late people. So my next book in 2011 was called The Consuming Instinct, What Juicy Burgers, Ferrari Ferrari's Pornography and Gift Giving Reveal About Human Nature.
Then the next one was the parasitic mind, how infectious ideas are killing common sense. That came out 2020. Most important? That's by far because of the topic. Yes. Exactly. That's the one that that's been an international bestseller, but I think translated in 22 Wow. Languages now or something like around there. So, yeah, that's been a big one. The next one was the sad truth about happiness, 8 secrets for leading the good life, which came out last year. And then the next one is going to be suicidal empathy. How when empathy misfires, you'll be it results in the kinds of problems that we've been talking about. And where can people buy them? Amazon? So Ingram Hall, buy them on Amazon and, of course, through my my various publishers.
My last two books were through Red Canary, but all of the 5 books are on Amazon.
[02:43:10] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And finally, Gav, I've enjoyed after a couple of your time here. I've enjoyed the conversation. What is the future for Gadsad?
[02:43:16] Gad Saad:
The future for Gadsad is We're very and be honest. Professionally? Just in life. It do is it good? Is it bad? Is it Well, God willing, it's very good. It's filled with, purpose and meaning. It is, seeing my children flourish and surpass their father. Any any good dad or mom should always have the humility to say, not that you just want your children to grow up to be good people. You want them to be even better people than you. So hopefully, I keep my fingers crossed for that to continue having a beautiful marriage with my wife and being healthy and meeting
[02:43:52] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
interesting guys like Tommy Robinson. And you know what? I wanna end on actually because, god, you have as I said it earlier, you've aged like wine. Remember we spoke 8 years ago. I dug the picture up. Yeah. You look very well. Okay? You look like I've had a massive improvement in your health and in the way in your visibility, the way you look. How is that? Because if people are watching this that are feeling
[02:44:11] Gad Saad:
unhealthy or in a position Yes. Low point in their life, what what have you done? One of the reasons why I wrote the happiness book is because whenever I would share some advice on life, people would take so much to it, including how I ended up losing. So How much do you weigh? So my my heaviest weight to my lightest weight, I'm now about 6, £7 more than my lightest Okay. But still very much thinner.
[02:44:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
I lost £86.
[02:44:36] Gad Saad:
What's £86 in stone? £86 in stone, so divided by 14. So maybe
[02:44:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
7 stones. Okay. That's a lot of weight. Yeah. So How?
[02:44:46] Gad Saad:
Yeah. So a few things. Number 1, 90% of your weight is through this guy. Oh, yeah. I know. And I can't control it, bro. Okay. I'd rather train twice. And about 10% is through exercise. So number 1, I used COVID to turn it into a positive. Is that when you started you? Yeah. I mean, I started maybe a month or 2 earlier, but it's really the bulk of it was through COVID. It's 15
[02:45:15] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
t. I've had that this morning.
[02:45:19] Gad Saad:
How was that then? My wife, who I call her my food,
[02:45:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
she will keep track of every single No. She give me 600 calories in the morning yesterday. I know. Yesterday. Oh, you were frying cream cakes for me.
[02:45:32] Gad Saad:
That's what's happening now. So so she she I would eat no more than 50 to 600. Measured weights? 15 to 20000 steps a day no matter what. Got it. Every day. Every day, it's been actually for before even I started losing weight, it's been about 4 or 5 years. I do 15, 20000 steps no matter what. It could be minus 20 outside. Now it could be I do a stationary bike. It could be a treadmill. It could be a long walk. It could be anything. But at the end of the day, I have to certainly have reached between 15,000, 20,000 steps.
[02:46:05] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Is that quite easier? Did it get better? To someone who's sitting at home who hasn't walked in months or years? Just start small steps. I know it sounds like cliche.
[02:46:14] Gad Saad:
Start 2,000 steps. Take a 10 minute walk. Just don't sit sedentary in your living room. And, you know,
[02:46:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
80 And you do that every day, though? That that's a Rooting about everything?
[02:46:29] Gad Saad:
Every single day, the totality of decisions you made results in only 1 of 3 outcomes to your weight. Yes? Your weight could either go up that day, it could stay the same, or it could go down. Yes? Now let's suppose that I just make sure that every single day, it's down. Now it could be 0.00 down. Right? But if every single day, for a 180 consecutive days, that statement holds true, I'll get on the scale and I'll go, oh my god. I can't believe it. I lost £42. What I mean by that is it's it's also a psychological mindset. If you get on the scale and you say, how am I ever gonna lose £50? It seems impossible.
It will be impossible. But if you say it's actually just a daily battle, I need today to be thinner than yesterday, even if it's by 2 millimeters, and do that over enough days, you end up looking as gorgeous and as well as I am. And how much better did you feel? From from that time, how much did how much confidence does it give you? How much better do you feel? Or how much Huge. Huge. Not so much from a vanity perspective to be honest with you. Because I think had it been vanity, I would have never let it get out of control in the first place. Yes. It's great to be able to look good, for people to comment about your looks and so on. But the most important thing for me, and it may apply to your viewers or not, it was the psychological weight, the following weight. I I have health and psychological weight the following way. I I have health anxiety, meaning that I don't like to go do my physical every year because I'm always worried. What if it gives me some devastating news. Right? So I'm always concerned about weight. And I was thinking, well, I've got young children.
I'm very overweight. You said example. My my blood pressure is starting to creep up. For someone who want who is anxious about their health, what's the best way to remove that anxiety? Be thin, bring back your blood pressure threat. And so once I got rid of that so that when I go see my physician and he does my blood pressure and now it's like that of a 12 year old, then that's the weight that I think I have most benefit from, more than the size of my waist.
[02:48:30] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Yeah. Gad, it's been, very enjoyable. And it's been absolutely an honor to meet you. It's so good to talk. I wish you some luck. Cheers. Thank you, Gad. Cheers. Oh, that was good. If you're watching that, we're still centered on most places. Like it, share it, and give Gad a follow at what's your Twitter? Atgadsah. Rochelle on there. Cheers. Cheers, man. Thanks, bro. Carry on watching for more interesting guests. I'll talk to anyone. I'll debate anyone. I'll hear anyone's story. If you want to help me along that way, it's not free. I need your support. If you can support my family, that gives me my peace of mind. It means I can continue to do the work I do. I appreciate every bit of support as do my children. It gives me the ability to fly them out here, to see me so I can stay in constant contact with them. I'm the platform and I'm censored, so I need you. I need you to share this content, and make sure you stay tuned for upcoming weekly guests, interesting guests, exciting guests. I'm Tom Robson, and this has been my podcast, Silenced.
When Islam comes into a place, they offer you a few choices. Convert, die, or live or live as a dhimmi, and you pay a jizyah, which is a protection kind of polkaise. And there are all sorts of institutionalized mechanisms to remind you of where you stand in the hierarchy of the society. I've got an opportunity to brainwash these next generation of of idiots. Let me use the pulpit to do that. And therefore, let me teach them that, socialism is great. Let me teach them that, whiteness is evil, that patriarchy, men are toxic and so on. So then what do you expect the future generation of politicians to be? They are called Justin Trudeau. If we're looking at universities, and in fact, if you you've got children. Yeah?
[00:01:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
If there's a parent here whose children are about to go to university, what advice would you give the kids? Because people I I always say now, people parents used to be worried about their kids going to university and getting addicted to drugs or drinking too much alcohol. Now I'd be worried about them coming out of university, chopping off their penis or removing their boobs. Something big's gone on. Information covered up, censorship, corruption, the mainstream media have proven itself to be untrustworthy. I'm here to give a platform for debate, for truth, for open discussion. I'm introducing you to my podcast, silenced with Tommy Robinson.
[00:01:41] Gad Saad:
Who exactly is Tommy Robinson or Steven Gatsky Leno? With the English friendly The problem is this was landing brave. Far right, lambophobic act Since then, we've organized protests across the country, London, Manchester, Leeds, even in their thousands of marching across the street. There's no such thing in this country as a Muslim. Free, Derby Robertson.
[00:02:08] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Welcome to my latest edition of my podcast, Silence. I've traveled to Canada. The first city I've come to is Montreal to meet a certain gentleman who I've watched for years, I've respected. It's Gad Sad. How you doing, Tommy? It's a pleasure to finally sit down with you. Likewise. So I'll just introduce you to my viewers. And I'd like to start at the beginning, Gads. Sure. Just to understand I know you're an author. You're a professor. But where was you born?
[00:02:35] Gad Saad:
So I was born in Lebanon Yep. 59 years ago now. I can't believe I still feel like I'm 12 years old. It's not. And you look well good. Thank you. 1964, we were part of the last we, meaning my family, my community, we're part of the last remaining Jews in Lebanon. There was at one point a, not thriving, but a sizable minority of Jews in Lebanon, most of whom left during the 20th century as it became more difficult to be Jewish in the Middle East. But we were part of the last group that steadfastly refused to leave Lebanon. But then the civil war broke out in 1975 when I was 11 years old. Well, it broke out when I was 10. And so we spent the 1st year of the civil war in Lebanon, but then it really became untenable to be Jewish in Lebanon.
[00:03:24] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And so we escaped and came to Montreal. So people understand the civil war in 75? 75. Yeah. Civil war. What was the demographics of Lebanon at that time? So it would have been majority Christian.
[00:03:35] Gad Saad:
Roughly, I think, probably around 60s 67%. So Lebanon was a Christian country. I mean, it is historically been referred to as the Paths of the Middle East. And as tolerant and progressive, but you always have to contextualize those words in the context of the Middle East. Right? In the Middle East, you're tolerated until you're not tolerated. Right? And when you're no longer tolerated, you gotta put on some really good running shoes and run fast because they're coming for you. So you always had a sense that your time was limited, and that's why most of my extended family had left Lebanon Before the civil war. Before the civil war. Okay. And so, and so by the time the civil war broke out, as you probably know, most butchery in the world is measured against the brutality of the Lebanese civil war because it was truly, orgiastically brutal because, you know, neighbors that have lived next to each other suddenly became mortal enemies.
Much of the war was some argue that it was based on politics, but, of course, it had a huge religious element. So the Christians were generally fighting against the Muslims, but even within the Muslims, there were many different factions, the PLO, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, and many other militia groups. And there was really no place where the Jews can hide. So I'll give you a couple of quick examples. So in Lebanon, you carry what's called in Arabic, hawaii. Hawaii is an internal ID card. Which has your religion on it. Which has your religion on As a matter of fact, it's it's more important than your height or your weight or your eye color. It's it's the number I mean, the prism by which everything is is is measured in Lebanon is which group do you belong to, which religious group. So if you were Jewish, it wasn't even so in Arabic, Jewish is Yahudi.
It wasn't even written Yahudi, Jew. It was written Isra'il, which means Israelite. So even in the context of the fact that you were Lebanese, you're Arabs, it doesn't matter if you were an Israelite. Now why is that important? Because one of the ways that people got killed early in the war is that there'd be these random roadblocks, these militia roadblocks anywhere. So you're going to buy bread. There's a militia group that stops you. Show us your how we show us your papers. Well, there weren't many militia groups that you were going to clear if you had Israelite on it. So you couldn't really so there was many ways that you could die. Snipers could kill you, bombs could kill you, people could knock on your door, the militia could kill you, the robot. And so if you were Jewish, you had to really lay low and be quiet and hopefully
[00:06:06] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
get out. And eventually, during that 1st year, we were able to escape to Montreal. So people can understand. So what kicked off the civil war? And was it just because am I right that just all of a sudden roadblocks start getting set up? So the catalyst
[00:06:19] Gad Saad:
Yeah. Although there is the the cancer is brewing before it all comes out was I think there was an incident where, there was a a massacre of a bus that kind of led to the original original breaking out of war, but the the the writing was already on the wall. So, for example, my so I have 3 siblings. The next oldest is 10 years older than me. He's a judo champion, and you'll see in a second why I'm mentioning it because people think that it just broke out the war, but all of the nastiness was already being laid in the foundation. So he was Lebanese champion for many years in a row Okay. In June. And then, around 1973, so this is 2 years before the war broke out, he was visited by some men who explained to him that it was time for him to retire because it wasn't it didn't look good before, you know A Jew to be representing Lebanon. And, well, and also to be winning the Lebanese championship, especially in a combat sport. That doesn't look good. Right? I mean, Jews should be submissive and and meek. Know your place, Jew. And so they they basically told him that it was time for him to retire lest there might be an accident that happens to him. And so he left and moved to Were they Christian or were they Muslim? The people that come to you? Muslim. Muslim. Okay.
Then my oldest brother who lives now in Montreal, in 1974, he was dating. He was courting about to get married to a Palestinian Christian woman, which didn't go well either in her family because she was marrying a Jew and it didn't go well in my family because she wasn't. He wasn't marrying a Jew. Okay. And so there was already a lot of conflict. They ended up eloping. Well, he was stopped at one of those roadblocks by PLO, Palestinian Liberation Organization, militiamen. This is before the civil war. And when they stop and they said, oh, boy. You've got a really beautiful watch here. Meaning, give me a look it up. And he's like, no. This is a watch that my mother gave me. No way. And so they look at his wife to be a I think she they weren't married yet, blonde and said, oh, she really she's really beautiful. You're a young wife. Right? And then he ended up moving to Montreal also before the civil war. So, yes, we can talk about That's just your family. So just out your 2 brothers, that's happened to them. So what was happening across the board to the union? So, yes, there we can point to a specific event that started the war, but all of those undercurrents were taking place. If you want, I can share a couple of Please do. Stories that I went through. I actually discussed this in the first chapter of The Parasitic Mind, my 2020 book. So in the first time that at least I remember facing Jew hatred in Lebanon, middle of Paris and the Middle East, Lebanon, tolerant, progressive Lebanon, was in 1970, my, not mine, president Gamal Abdel Nasser, who was the Egyptian president of of Egypt, he was very, very popular across the Middle East and in the Arab world because he was a pan Arabist, meaning he was trying to unite all of the Arabs into, you know, one cohesive force. Of course, in part, we get rid of Israel and the the the Jew cancer and all this kind of stuff. Well, in 1970, he passed away.
And as often happens in the Middle East, people take to the street to do these kind of lamentations and religious incantations and death to this and death to that. And as the the crowd was proceeding down my street in Beirut, I was hearing death to Jews, death to Jews. And I turned to my mother, I said, why why are you screaming deaf to Jews? And she says, just keep keep your head down. Be quiet. That was the first time that How old are you? I'm 5. I'm 5. I hadn't yet turned 6, so this is 1970. So that was one example. Another story that I tell, well, I told the judo story with my brother. By the way, just to complete that story. So my brother leaves to France because he can no longer compete compete in, in Beirut, Lebanon.
In 1976, the Montreal Olympics well, happened in Montreal. He ended up representing Lebanon. So imagine so the guy who was too Jewish to be the Lebanese champion ends up we'll we'll forgive the fact that you've got the terminal disease of being Jewish in 1976. To fly in the Olympics. To fight in the Olympics. So 1976, not too far from here. They he actually competed. He he lost in the 1st round, but nonetheless, he represented Lebanon. Here's a to 2 more quick stories. Story number 2, around 1974, so this is probably 6, 8 months before the start of the civil war.
I'm sitting in my class, and, the teacher says, each of you stand up and tell us what you wish to be when you grow up. Person gets up, I wanna be a a soccer player. I wanna be a policeman. I wanna be a nurse. And a guy, a kid gets up who knows, who's a, quote, friend of mine who I've grown up with, says when I grow up, I wanna be a jupiter to the rawness applause and laughter of everybody. And by the way, I have How many Jews were in your class? There was one other Jew. And the rest of all Muslim? No. Mixture. Mixed. Okay. Christian Muslims. Yeah. Christian Muslims. Was this child who said this Muslim? I so I can't confirm, but I'm almost certain based on his name that he is. Okay. So yeah. And how old are you then? So I'm about 10, maybe 9 and a half.
Story 3, which I'll tell the story as it happened in Lebanon and then I'll close the loop as to what happened just here in Montreal after October 7th. Okay. So the day that we left Lebanon, and by the way, we were accosted to the airport by Palestinian militia, whom my parents had paid money to
[00:12:24] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
to get us to get you out of work because
[00:12:27] Gad Saad:
there was no way that you could clear the roadblocks that were around the Beirut International Airport that were controlled by the PLO if if whoever was bringing you was not sympathetic. Like, if they don't tell you, you can go through. Yeah. Now, of course, as you're being taken by these guys that are all wearing the all the stuff that you see, the ISIS The Jada. I grew up in that world. And so those guys come over to our house to take us. Now you don't know if when they're taking you Even a toad. They're going to put take care of the ditch and put a bullet in there. As a matter of fact, I remember So your mom and dad are taking a massive risk by doing that. Exactly. But that's the only way out. Otherwise, just You you you you roll the dice, you're either going to get a balloon in your head or they're actually going to honor their thing. And luckily, they did honor it. Anyways, I remember when the guys came over to our house, the main guy that what looked like the the leader, was actually very sweet to me. And he saw that I was looking at the It's good. The machine gun. No. And he said, oh, do you wanna hold it? And I remember sort of holding the the machine gun as a little boy. How old was you at this point?
I just turned 11. 11. Okay. Yeah. I just turned 11. So we left end of October, and my birthday is in mid of mid October. So I just turned 11. So then by the way, as we're driving to the airport, I have I'm about to tell a story of what happened when we left. We flew out of Lebanon. But the I have no memory from the time that they picked us up to when we flew out. And once I asked my parents, how come I don't recall That that kind. That thing? And so they told me, and I truly have no memory of it, that as we were going through different neighborhoods in Beirut to get to the Beirut International Airport, we were taking fire from different, you know, make militia who were not sympathetic to the PLO, and we were they had, like, our suitcases on top of us in the car, and we were all so it was so traumatic You might find it. That I I repressed it. Glad to hear. I don't so I have no recollection of that. The only recollection I have is them telling me that that that happened. So anyway, so we we get to the airport, We take the flight out. And at one point, the captain says we are now out of Lebanese airspace.
Okay? And so my mother takes out, in the book, I say it could have been a star of David or it could have been a high, which is the the sign of, you know, life. But I I'm almost certain it was a star. David, she puts it around my neck and says, now you can wear this proudly and not hide your identity. Okay. So that gives you a sense of what Paris in the Middle East was, that even though you were tolerated, don't advertise that you're Jewish because you never know who's going to come after you. Now let's fast forward to around, I think it was October 21st. You could probably go and check because the tweet is still up. Okay. So I was picked up. I was working on a laptop, at a cafe not not far from where you and I met yesterday. Okay.
And my wife picks me up, and she's with our one of our children who had just played a soccer match, in the east end of Montreal. And as I walk into the car, the first thing he says, daddy, if you were wearing a Star of David where I just played soccer, you'd be dead. So in 19 and by the way, the poetry of life is that he uttered those words at almost the identical age that I was in in 1975. So in 1975, my wife, my wife my mother puts the Star of David around me and says, you can now wear this proudly. That's 45 years later, my son says, if you were that star of David, you'd be dead in Montreal, Canada in the 21st century.
[00:16:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So that's where it's gone. That's where it's gone. When you left when you left there, when you left Lebanon,
[00:16:33] Gad Saad:
there was your mom, you, who else? There was my mom, me, my sister had returned. So my my 2 brothers were out. Already gone. One brother was already in Montreal. The one who with the watch and the blonde. The other one had lived in France because it's no place for a Jewish girl to to to grow up. She had come to Montreal to study at university, but had gone back to visit much Beirut and then got caught in the Lebanese civil war. So as we left, it was me, my mother, my father, and, if I remember correctly, my sister.
[00:17:21] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Your mother and father, were they born in Lebanon? They were born in Lebanon. So understanding, we can see how it's gone 45 years later to Canada to Canada, Montreal. But when your mom and dad were growing up in Lebanon, was it safe to be Jewish?
[00:17:34] Gad Saad:
So it depends what safe is. Right? Is it is it safe in the sense that there isn't a daily, you know, Paul Groman genocide of Jews? Yes. Can people find out that you're Jewish? Of course, Because they just have to go to the synagogue on Saturday mornings, and they would see who's there. But you it it's it's quote safe. Right? It's, you know, be quiet. Yeah. Don't ever certainly don't ever show allegiance to Israel. Don't ever speak about politics. Don't ever criticize the government. Know your place, Jew. Right? So you are may maybe your followers know this.
You know the concept of a dimmi. Yep. Okay. So That's why I explained for the people that died. Right. So it I understand. So in in in Islamic doctrine, dimmi is not even a second class citizen. It's a 3rd class citizen, a 4th class citizen. When Islam comes into a place, they offer you a few choices. Convert, die, or live or live as a dhimmi, and you pay a jizyah, which is a protection kind of poll tax. And there are all sorts of institutionalized mechanisms to remind you of where you stand in the hierarchy of the society. You're a dummy. Right?
They refer to you as, a kafir, a kufar, an unbeliever. It's a kind of a dirty word, right? Now, that doesn't mean that on a daily basis people were spitting at you. My parents were well entrenched in Lebanese society. They had tons of friends who were Muslim and Christian, so I don't want to make it sound as though every day, you know, you were you had tomatoes thrown at you, but you knew that your time was numbered. That's why my extended family had all left. That's why all of my siblings who were much older than me, my parents were clear that their future could not be in Lebanon. And that was before the civil war broke out. Right? So so so, yes, it was dangerous in that, I think my parents were smart enough to realize that it we had no long term future there. But by the way, it's so hard to extricate yourself from your background and that even when we moved to Montreal in the middle of the most brutal civil war, my parents then kept returning to Lebanon.
And, you know, many people would say, well, how how how could you go back to support? How could you you've emigrated. You've left, you know, by the skin of your teeth. Well, it's because they came here. They're already in their forties. They're they hate it here. It's cold here. Did they ever bring you back as children? I never went back. No case. So they made decision to go back. They as a matter of fact, from from when we immigrated in at the end of 1975 till 1980, a large chunk of that time period, I was only growing up with the judo brother because the the other brother was married.
The other the sister had then gotten also married. So in our first home in Montreal, it was just me and the judo player who was 10 years older than me. He's busy. He's going to university. He's still training for judo. So I was basically raised by the wolves, okay, by by by the street. So thank God I I came out okay. On one of their return trips to Lebanon in 1980, my parents were kidnapped by Fatah, and it was that event that then resulted in them never returning. So they were kidnapped, some really bad things happened to them.
[00:21:09] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
What sort of bad things? Do you want me to ask?
[00:21:11] Gad Saad:
I mean, torture. My father had a a massive, beating with a rifle here that caused a, a temporary paralysis. You know, when you get a stroke Yeah. Yeah. Heart attack. Right. So he had that for a while. My mother so I'm not even sure if I've ever mentioned this publicly. So you might be getting an exclusive here. Or anything sexual? Sexual. Right. So I was 15 at the time, and I remember that the You're here on your own?
[00:21:44] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Your mom and dad are in? I'm here with my friend. With your brother, but your mom and dad are out there. And how did you find out they've been kidnapped? Well, that's actually, I talk about this in the parasitic mind.
[00:21:54] Gad Saad:
A friend of mine whom we call my cousin, but he's not a biological cousin, but my parents and his parents were very close friends. He went to the same high school as me. Now he had found out through the Lebanese network that my parents had been kidnapped, but my siblings had kept that in the trunk. From you to stop your worrying. Right. And so he would see me at school laughing and being And I get out of how's he How this guy is pretty cold. He's pretty callous to to be so Well, they say fair about it. I didn't know that my parents were kidnapped. I knew that there was a lot of hectic stuff happening in the house and there was a lot of stress because my siblings were coming, they were phoning, and they they told me some via story about, oh, they lost money, we're trying to what whatever. Some some just to not get me worried.
I only found out the full story when my parents were rescued and then they came came back to Montreal. They were, I think, in Campellini for 8 days in tow. Now regarding the sexual stuff, when I did find out the story and I was 15 years old, as you would expect from an evolutionary perspective, which we might end up talking about, my first concern as a male was that they do anything to my mother. And I remember I asked her that. She kind of hesitated and then just said she said no, but I've never known if it was a lie or not. But she said that they threatened her, that they they would do certain things to threaten that the gang rape was coming.
I won't get into the details. But I've never I've always wondered whether she lied to me or didn't lie to me. So I I don't know. And I never brought it up again. But I remember as a 15 year old, I thought that if she says that it's yes, I would spend the rest of my life hunting down those guys. But she told me no.
[00:23:54] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So so she was kidnapped by Fata. Fata. And you you talked about the PLO. To people who don't know who the PLO are, who the PLO So the PLO is the Palestinian Liberation Organization.
[00:24:05] Gad Saad:
Their their head was, Yasser Arafat, who so the the background to some of this story of the kidnapping, What so my mother's best and I'll come back to the piano in a second. My mother's best friend was a Syrian woman, a Muslim woman. Her name was Hassan. She was the personal dresser of Hafez al Assad. Hafez al Assad was the president of Syria. His son now, Bashar al Assad, is the current president. Okay. And the way it works in Lebanon, everything is through connections. Right? If if you don't have connections, I mean, you're dead.
So what my siblings were doing through all their networks is trying to work the network to find out and dad. Where mom and dad are. Who happened? So through Hassan, she reach she come she speaks to Hafez al Assad, who then the most likely kidnappers would have probably been some fraction of Palestinian militia. So then, Yasser Arafat tells her, well, I I don't know if they're with one of our groups. I can find out, but hopefully they're not with Abu Nidal's group because at that time there was a a power struggle between Abu Nidal who was leading, FATA and Yasser Arafat and they were with that group.
Now during the captivity one of the things that they were, well, the main thing that they were trying to get them to do, torturing and so on, is to get them to sign that they are Israeli spies. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And then and my luckily, they're not Israeli spies, but they never said, yeah, yeah, okay fine we'll sign it. Because then that would have given them the, you know, the legal, I mean not that there's any legal Justifications. Yeah. To just execute them. And it turns out, and I I don't think I've ever you're getting a lot of scoops today. So one story that I had heard after the fact was that so as you know, in the 7th deadly sins, one of the deadly sins is greed.
And so this one story I heard, I I I don't know if it's true or not, but I think it's pretty authenticated, is that that so my dad had a store. My my mother had a store, and my dad had a store in separate areas. My mother was closer to the Jewish border. My dad was in another area called Hamada. And the owner of that building wanted my dad to sell him off the the historic, which hadn't yet been liquidated. My parents had kept it. That's why they kept going back to Lebanon even Oh, they kept the business even illegally. Exactly. And so, apparently, he concocted this whole, kidnapping To get the business. To get to them get the business. So Privacy. Yeah. So that's that's what I had heard from. So Okay. And then when you you said your parents were rescued, who rescued them? They were rescued just means that there was a money money exchange Money exchange. Okay. Exchange and then, okay, you can have them back. Now the reality is, I don't know if you can appreciate, in Lebanon, you know, at the time, your life wasn't worth the price of the bullet that you will put in your head. So the fact that they even survived for that many days, you know, usually when you're kidnapped You're gone. You're gone. You're never seen again. And I and actually, what led to the original thing of my dad being beaten is that as they came, to their apartment, there were militia guys waiting for them saying, come with us. And my father realized that that meant that they were about to be executed.
So he starts pleading with them and he's holding on to the railing of the the stairs of the apartment building and to try to get him to, you know, let go, they they started, smashing him. So it was truly miraculous that they, you know, ever came out. So after that, no one's gone back. I've been invited many, many times once, you know, I became a a known person. Oh, come back. You'll be in the prime minister's thing. You'll be protected. We we love you. Blah blah. And I said, hey. I'm not Taking that risk. Never taken that risk. What's the results of the civil war? Nothing really. I mean, all Who controls it now, Lebanon? Well, so Lebanon, the demographic reality is that it's completely flipped now. It is a majority Islamic country.
It's I so the exact numbers, I'm not I'm not sure, but it's probably now 65, 70 percent Islamic. Of course, Hezbollah is in control in most areas, but it it's a, you know, demography is truly destiny. Right? And and that's one of the things that I've been and so have you, you know, been warning people in the west is that it's just a numbers game. And so in Lebanon, you would have never thought that it would ever be anything other than a Christian country. Well, it is no longer a Christian country. What happened to the Syrian Christians?
What happened to the Iraqi Christians? What happened to the Coptic Christians of Egypt? Egypt used to be completely Coptic. So it's only a matter of time that you have the reverse happening. Sometimes it takes 2 minutes for us to Islamic society. Sometimes it takes 2 years. Sometimes it takes 200 years. But once that trend starts, Insha'Allah, it will eventually be 100% Islamic.
[00:29:41] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And is that the trend you see happening now for the West? Yes.
[00:29:45] Gad Saad:
I've been I mean, again, I'm I'm speaking to a guy who's been warning Europe. Yeah. It's it's absolutely unbelievable. Right? So if I let me contextualize. We moved here at the end of 75, from 1975 to about 1998. And the reason why I remember the date is because it's episodic memory, because the first time that I saw a veiled woman in Montreal. So I went from 1975 to 1998 without ever seeing a veiled woman. K. As a matter of fact 23 years, nothing. Yeah. Nothing. 0. I Islam was in my rearview mirror. Then I started seeing, then then I started seeing more, then I started seeing more. Well, now I can walk out of my house and out of the first 50 women I see, 25 of them will be veiled. So we've gone from 'I didn't see a veiled woman for 23 years' to now it's everywhere. It's normalized everywhere.
Now someone will say, oh, but it's just a garment. It's just what do you care? It's just an exciting it's just a, I mean, sure. If you're an idiot, you think that. Right? Islam doesn't tolerate others once it becomes in the majority. Does that mean that every Muslim is a horrible person? Of course not. Does it mean that most are lovely? Absolutely. Do I have tons of Muslim friends and fans? Absolutely. We're talking about the ideology. Does Islam tolerate others once it's in the majority? Well, there is this thing called 1400 years of data that can answer that question for us and the answer is rather unequivocal.
[00:31:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So why do you think anyone like our country's leaders who have got 1400 years of history to look at where there's no success story ever? Why do you think they can't work this out?
[00:31:40] Gad Saad:
That that's why I wrote The Parasitic Mind. Right? So let me explain what that book is about, and then I'll be able to answer that question. So in in the animal kingdom, there is a field called parasitology. Parasitology is the study of parasites. In in the animal kingdom, there are all sorts of parasites that can get a hold of its host. So let's say a tapeworm gets into your intestinal tract and it and it feeds off it feeds off you. A neuroparasite is a parasite that wants to go to your brain, alter your circuitry to suit its interests. So for example, a wood cricket, once it is parasitized by a hairworm, brain worm, it it it the hairworm needs the wood cricket to jump into water in order for it to complete its reproductive cycle. The wood cricket detests water, it it hates it, it abhors water. But once its brain is parasitized, it becomes zombified.
So it merely jumps to its suicide in the surface of its parasitic What's inside it? What's inside it. Right? So I argued in the parasitic mind that human beings can be parasitized by ideological brain worms. Right? So in the same way that we can be parasitized by actual physical brain worms, and and humans can be parasitized by actual brain worms, we can be parasitized by postmodernism, cultural relativism, social constructivism, radical feminism, identity politics, diversity, inclusion, equity, and many others. And each of these were spawned on university campuses. I say this regrettably as a professor. It takes academics to come up with some of the dumbest ideas and then these ideas end up parasitizing our political class who originally come from the universities.
And so a roundabout way to answering your question is that our western politicians have had this perfect cocktail of parasitic ideas that causes them to reject that 1400 years of data, which by the way, so in my in my next book called Suicidal Empathy Next book that's not out yet? That's not out yet. Okay. That I've I've only written about a 1,000 words of it. Okay. So in that book, I basically argue that empathy is a is a wonderful emotion to hold. As a social species, it makes perfect sense that we've evolved empathy. If I exhibit empathy towards you, hopefully, you'll reciprocate that empathy at some future time. So it's it's a way for us to oil our relationship. It's it's great. The problem with any emotion is that at times it can misfire. Right? It can become hyperactive.
It can target the wrong folks for empathy. Right? It makes sense that you and I are more empathetic towards our biological children than to random children. That doesn't make us evil. It makes us evolutionary beings that recognize that our children are are More important. Are more important. Why? Well, because they are the vehicle of our immortality. They are literally half our genes are invested in our children. So I'm going to jump in in front of the truck to save my child more than I am a random kid in Liberia, not because I'm a callous mean person, but because my mind has evolved to actually be able to distinguish between where I should met my investment.
So now our Western leaders have decided, because of this cocktail of parasitic ideas, that it is it is simply evil that we close our wonderful societies to folks from the outside. They too deserve the opportunity to benefit from the West. Now, in in some small way, that's absolutely true. If you want to come to the West and you want to leave at the door all of the cultural and religious, values that might be incongruent with our Western values, then come in my brother. Hopefully, we can make even a better society with you in it. But if you wanna come into the West and you then want to impose your values once you become strong enough to do so, well, then a 3 day old pigeon should be able to predict where that's going to go. Well, because of these parasitic ideas, because of suicidal empathy, our Western leaders are the happy, merrily wood cricket jumping into the water in the surface of the hairworm.
Notionology. You like to know? Yeah. Do you? That's why I've got some.
[00:36:16] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Okay. Let's rewind a bit. So you come here at 10:11. You come from a war zone. Yes. You're in a war zone for a year. You you're escaping, maybe going to death at that time. You land in Canada. What's it like when you land in Canada for a young Jewish kid from Lebanon? It's great. So I remember as I was
[00:36:33] Gad Saad:
being driven to my first day to elementary school, so this is, I think we arrived, if I'm not mistaken, October 31, 1975. So it must have been early November that I finally got to elementary school. I saw this weird thing falling. Snow. Snow. We should be missing the The boy from from Lebanon doesn't see snow. Although in the mountains of Lebanon, there is snow. But, you know, we're we're in this city where it's where today's weather in Montreal would be considered a cold day and and whatnot. And so I'm like, what the hell is this? But then I remember thinking, well, it's better that these white things fall on me than the bullets the bullets. And so in a sense, I felt safe. So the first thing I felt is, my god, this is a cold, dreary place. And I remember the first day that I went into class, actually, our teacher's name was madame missus madame Abuayza, who she was like, I escaped Lebanon. I come here, and the first person is actually an Arabic name. And so she asks me to get up to introduce myself to the class. I didn't speak English, and this was a English elementary school. I I spoke I mean, Arabic is my mother tongue, but I also spoke French.
But you spoke French when you was in Lebanon? Yeah. Because Lebanon at one point was a French protectorate. So the the upper classes and so on, when you went to school, you typically learned, well, Arabic and French. So we all everybody spoke French. Is that why you come to Montreal? Exactly. So there were there were two reasons why we came to Montreal. Well, we had an aunt, we had a maternal aunt, my mother's sister Yep. That had immigrated, I think, around 1970 or or late sixties with her husband, who was a prominent physician, who later became the director general of the Montreal Jewish Hospital.
And so because we already had an aunt here and Montreal was French speaking, my parents thought, okay, well, let's move to Montreal. And at the time, maybe today as well, it was easier to get, you know, refugee papers, in in Canada than it would have been in the US. My my father was actually quite keen on moving to Israel, but he lost that debate with my mother because my mother was not very keen on having all her children end up serving in the military, and especially the 11 year old who certainly would have been next in line. And interestingly, when she ended up winning that debate, I I remember in 1982, Israel went into Lebanon, to to clear out some of the the nasty guys. Well, had my father You'd have been in there. The first guy in there, I would have been the absolute so I am the Lebanese guy who only left 7 years ago. I'm in my 1st year of military service because of 1982.
I would have been 17 going on 18. And I'm Arabic speaker who's going who's going into Lebanon. So if it would have been me, I would have been the the guy. So, anyways, so we we when we I get to that elementary school and the teacher asks me to stand up and introduce myself. I don't speak English, so I I said, you know, my name I mean, I said it in French. My name is Gadzad, and I come from Lebanon. And so kids were like, what? Because a lot of them are English English only. Although you you would think that Montreal is a bilingual city. And so then I said, and I went like this to make, like a shooting to to to get suggestion for them to know. Liban.
[00:40:22] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
For Lebanon. Right? Yeah. For the war. And
[00:40:25] Gad Saad:
incredibly, a few years ago, I was at, at the time, my daughter's elementary school barbecue end of year. And a guy came up From your class? From that class and said, I remember you. Exactly. And, you know, we didn't grow up with cell phones and that's all. Your documented history only lives in your memory and in anybody else who shared that experience. So in him saying that story, that was the cell phone showing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I remember you the first day. I'm like, oh my god. It's it's it gave it gave me goosebumps. So so anyway so then I I very, very quickly settled into my life. You know, children are very malleable. They have great plasticity.
It doesn't you know, you go from worrying about dying every second to worrying about whether you're going to make the soccer team. Although I wasn't worried about that because I was a very good soccer player. Was you welcomed in? Was you welcomed in? I was welcomed in. We'd probably have kids. We'd have kids. I I think one of the things that really as a slight tangent, one of the things that I think either makes your elementary school and high school years very painless or very painful is your athletic ability. Right? Yeah. If you're good at a football team, you got mates. I mean, you're you're the guy. And so I was really very good at soccer. And so it it I didn't you know, I wasn't You become popular. I was I was popular, you know, I was a friendly kid. Incredibly, in the last year I mean, it's so funny because you must be a great host because I'm telling a lot of stories that I've never told before.
The last year of my elementary school, the teacher that we had I don't know if sure with Carrie that I said. Anyways, she, I remember her very well, because I think a lot of the boys had a little bit of a crush on her, a 12, 13 year old boy crush. Did you did you?
[00:42:30] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
I I thought she was very interested. A lot of the boys. You mean you did. Yeah.
[00:42:34] Gad Saad:
Anyway, I think you're the psychologist. So this is 9 this would be 1977 now, my last year of elementary school. This was about 3 years ago, so calculate the math. 40 some years later, I received an email. Guess who's from? From the teacher. From that teacher. I Same one. I recently saw you, whatever. I don't know if you remember me. I was your thing. So it was during COVID. So then she said, well, we can't meet now, but maybe would you be open to meeting for a coffee? And so, actually, where we had our latte yesterday You met her. I met her and, actually, my wife came. I can't remember how many of our children came, but I met that teacher. So And she's watched she's obviously seen you on TV. She must have seen you, girl. I'm on the Gad's side. Exactly. I know this kid. I know this kid. And so I actually asked her. I said, how because again, you don't have the cell phone. So your memories are either in your head or through the eyes of someone else. She said, oh, I remember you. You were a very, you know, fun you know, you're a very good student. You were always funny and so on. And so in a sense, your personality is your personality. So the guy that you described as a 12 year old boy, was exactly the guy that I am today. So I sometimes have a hard time believing I'm in my fifties. I still think I'm a 12 year old boy. So so life was was good here. It was fine.
I got into soccer. I was doing well in school. The first couple of years were tough, as I mentioned, because my parents kept going back to Lebanon, so I didn't have really too much parental guidance. But then in 1980, they returned permanently, which actually caused a bit of friction because then they wanted to assume the parental role, and I had a bit of You were rebelling against it. Yeah. I mean, like, hey. I didn't need you to tell me to do my homework all the years you were back the time. Did you do your homework? Would you still do it? Would you still I was a very conscientious guy. I was. So you were still you you was on the on your on your studies? Okay. I you know, I
[00:44:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
I'd be lucky then, your parents, because you could have gone off the ground. I should have and and believe me, I I had I had
[00:44:51] Gad Saad:
people in my in that group who, you know, were pretty rough. I mean, not rough, Detroit, Michigan. But, you know, then I could have easily veered into the wrong directions. I never took drugs. I never smoked. I I would, you know, I mean, I was a joker. I would do little silly things, but, I stayed on the narrow path and here here we are many years later with Thomas Robinson.
[00:45:14] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And not on the straight path.
[00:45:17] Gad Saad:
So you've got when you come out of school, you said if you were academic, what did you wanna be when you were leaving school? Yeah. So so there were only 2 things that I've ever been interested in being. And I thought for sure both would would Beach would happen. From a very, very young age, I wanted to be a professional soccer player and I wanted to be a professor.
[00:45:36] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
In a sense, I if I can They're 2 very different things. 2 very different things.
[00:45:42] Gad Saad:
I'm fortunate enough to have been the rare unicorn who had both the brawn and the brains, right? I had both the athletic ability and was also very academically oriented, which also, by the way, allowed me to be popular and so on. I think had I been only academically oriented, then I would have been with the nerd league types. But once you do the things that you can do on the soccer field, suddenly all the girls think you're the the hot hot guy. Right? So I wanted to be a soccer player. I thought that I would pursue my academic career once my soccer career finished. I faced a few difficulties.
Number 1, in the late seventies early eighties, being a big soccer player in Montreal, Canada did not afford you many opportunities. Okay. There were some opportunities to head off to Europe. How good was your day? So I got up to the under 18 international program. So I I made the Quebec team. So I don't know if we're we're we have 10 provinces in Canada. Okay. So, one of the provinces is Quebec. So making the under 18 Quebec now. Quebec likes to consider itself as a independent nation within a nation. So in that sense, it'll be like being capped. Okay. For the for the national championship. Okay.
I had won many championships, so we were my club was Quebec champion. My club had gone to the Canadian championship. I was vice champion of Canada with the Quebec team. So, I had gone to a national training camp for the under for the under eighteens, but then there was a tournament. So my my club had won the Quebec championship, so we were the Quebec champions. We were going for the Eastern Canadian championship, and in that tournament in Burlington, Ontario, which is about 5, 6 hours away, I had a devastating, career ending injury. You would know because you understand soccer.
I had a guy come from behind me and do a scissor stack up. Yep. And it caught my leg and just destroyed my leg. And so, like, the surgeon was going to try to fix it and I asked him, you know, when do you think I can play again? He had said, oh, never mind playing. I'm not sure if you'll ever walk without a limp. Right? And so because of that, because I was growing up in Canada, because I didn't have the family environment that supported those kinds of dreams. So for all sorts of dynamics, I really you know, I I didn't have Messi's father saying, sure. We'll all move to Barcelona and put all our chips On you. On you. And so I had you know, had I I remember, by the way, my first the first time that I visited Israel in 1983, I would play soccer everywhere. And at one point I met a bunch of British guys, 2 of whom recently rolled to me. This is 1983. This is 41 years ago. So I was playing with a bunch of British guys. How old you in 1983?
83. I was yeah. I was exactly 18. Okay. They saw me play, and they said, why aren't you at some, you know, a British division club in in England? I mean, you're better than almost anybody that we've ever seen. And they were, you know, they were British guys who do their soccer. And when I was 15, I had a guy who who was Scottish watch me. I actually score a goal not too far from where you and I met, who said, I can make calls right now and send you to be an apprentice with Celtic tomorrow morning. But because I grew up in that environment where I didn't have a good family backing because I'm in Canada, because of my injury, that dream ended. And so the highest I got was really under 18. I mean, I play after belonging stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tournaments with my university and stuff, but nothing serious. And so then my career was over, and so I just then laid into academia fully and I ended up Which you did what? What did you first study? So my first my my undergraduate, my bachelor's degree was in about as as technical and theoretical field as you can get, mathematics and computer science. Okay. And the idea there was well, first, I was very good in mathematics, but I thought if I'm going to be an academic, irrespective of which field I end up being an academic in, it's good to have the first degree be the hardest possible. Because in the same way that athletes will do sit ups, even though they're soccer players, they're not they're not kicking the ball with their abs, but you need to have your whole body be in shape. I needed this guy to be in shape so that whatever I ended up studying later comes easy comes easy. And and by the way, many of the top academic psychologists all have a mathematics background because it trains you to be an analytical thinker. Right? So my undergrad was in mathematics and computer science.
Then I went on and I did an MBA, with a mini thesis in operations research, which is, again, an applied mathematics field. Then I so the both of these degrees, so my undergrad and my MBA was at McGill University, which Which is where? It's here in Montreal. It's historically, is the number one school in Canada. Usually, it has been in the top 20 universities in the world. It's known as the Harvard of the North. Okay. It is today known for its now many months of, noble Palestinian encampments on campus. That's what it's known for now. So if you go like, actually, it's not far from here in McGill. No. They've got the Encampment. They have the they have mass. Yeah. That's at that's at McGill now. So when when you was at university all those years ago Yeah. Was there any wokeness
[00:51:34] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
in the university when you Not
[00:51:36] Gad Saad:
not undergrad, not MBA, but we're gonna come to the my my second master's, my master's of science and my PhD, and there you start seeing a tiny bit of it. So I'll get through it. So my undergrad and my MBA were at McGill, then I did my then I straight after my MBA, I went to Cornell University, which is one of the Ivy League universities in the United States. The goal there was just to be a mathematical modeler, meaning to apply mathematics to study human behavior. So I would I would join my quantitative background in trying to understand, you know, how people make economic decisions and so on. But when I got to Cornell, I hooked up with a professor who eventually became my doctoral supervisor.
His name is Jay Russo, who's a very well known cognitive psychologist. What's that mean? Cognitive psychologist is somebody who studies cognition. How how does the brain think? How is memory structured? How do you make decisions? Okay. K? So and his specialty was behavioral decision making. How do people actually make decisions? How do you choose between cars? How do you choose between political candidates? How do you how do you, how do you go through information when you're choosing I mean, he didn't do mate choice, but I ended up studying how do we choose our mates. And so I quickly veered from wanting to be a applied mathematical guy to actually becoming a behavioral scientist.
And so then I all of my training at Cornell were in was in largely in psychology and cognitive studies and so on. And so my doctoral dissertation so there I got an MS, a master's of science, and a PhD. My doctoral dissertation, without boring your audience too much, was when is it that we know that we've acquired enough information to stop and make a choice? And so let me I think that's pretty easy to understand the job. So imagine I'm choosing between a a a bunch of political candidates. Who am I gonna vote for? Well, there's an infinite amount of information I could look on them. Or I'm choosing between cars or I'm choosing between girls to potentially marry. I don't end up looking at all of the possible information.
I look at enough information so that at one point I say, you know what? I'm ready. I'm ready to buy the Mazda. Right? So what I studied in my PhD is the stopping decision, and the stopping meaning I stopped acquiring additional information, and I'm now convinced I'm buying the Mazda. I'm now convinced I'm holding doctor Trump. I'm now convinced I'm married. So I study what I call the stopping decisions and sequential choice, which is an area of decision making. Okay. Very, very technical area, very fancy cognitive psychology experiments and so on. The goal was to then apply it in consumer behavior. How do consumers make choices? Okay. And that's why I'm housed in a business school. Okay. But in the process of doing my PhD, in the 1st semester of my PhD, I was taking an advanced social psychology course with a professor by the name of Dennis Regan.
And about halfway through the semester, he assigned a book to to the class. A what? A book and to assign what? A book which I'll I'll discuss what it is, which would end up completely altering my academic career. The book was titled Homicide, which is murder. It was by 2 evolutionary psychologists, and I'll explain in a second what that was. Let me check. It was a book looking at patterns of criminality across cultures, across time periods, and then and then demonstrating that there are certain universal principles that explain why these crimes happen in their form. And so they were applying this evolutionary lens, which I'll explain, to study criminality.
And so I had my eureka moment. I said, okay. I'm going to apply evolutionary theory to study human behavior in general and economic and consumer behavior in particular. So I ended up founding the field of evolutionary consumer behavior, applying evolutionary biology to study consumer behavior. But let me can I go back and see if I can So
[00:55:56] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
what would be examples of
[00:55:59] Gad Saad:
patterns of criminality that would fit under an evolutionary framework? Okay. So let's do I'll give you 2 examples. And I'll not put you on the spot, but I wonder what you're going to say. So what do you think is the number one predictor of there being child abuse in a home? If that if the father if the parent was a victim. Right. Okay. So then when I lecture about this in class, I will go to the board and I will list all of the explanations. So one would be father was a victim. 2 might be alcoholic in the home, 3 might be wrong side of the track. And all of these might have some predictive value in in predicting the likelihood of their range challenges.
What if I told you that the actual reason is a hundredfold more predictive than any reason that you'll come up with. Now just to contextualize what a hundredfold means, usually usually in science, let's say let's say you're checking the efficacy of a drug. If the efficacy of the drug versus a placebo effect is 1 point 2, that means that it's 20% higher efficacy. So 1 to 1.2. This effect that I'm about talk about is a 1 to a 100. So it's orders of magnitude greater than anything you typically see when you're doing science. Okay. Having said that, can you you wanna revise what you think that one factor is?
And and by the way, if you don't get it, don't feel bad. Almost nobody gets it. Once I will tell you it, you will go, oh my god.
[00:57:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
The one thing that makes it a 100 times more likely that they're gonna be abusive towards a child Yeah. If they follow Islam. Your hate to him. If their name's Mohammed
[00:58:00] Gad Saad:
No. Okay. So you're ready? Yeah. Go on.
[00:58:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
If there's a step parent in the home. Because it's not his kid. There you go. So that increase Of course. Because their own father is not gonna abuse their own child. It's very unlikely even if they're an abuser, that's less likely. So there's gonna be if there's a stepdad.
[00:58:18] Gad Saad:
Now stepdad has become known in the literature, in the scientific literature, as the Cinderella effect. Because the sin this the story of Cinderella, which is a universal fable, it's, the the grand the step the stepmother is not dispositionally evil across all her children. Just the stepdaughter. Just the stepdaughter. She loves her biological children, can't stand her stepdaughter. Now you can show that in many animal species other than humans, you have the exact same phenomenon. So for example, if you take a lion's pride, well, what here's the dilemma that happens. Usually, the lion pride is is held together by 1 or 2 dominant males.
They kick out all the other males that who were fathered who were sired by them once they become sexually mature. So then there are all these young, frustrated young males floating around in nature are going to identify a pride, go and test the resolve of the dominant males. Usually, they're too young to put up a fight against the big males. Yep. But eventually, father time catches up to the males. Those dominant males are then given one of 2 choices, either leave peacefully, not unlike Islam, leave peacefully or suffer the consequences. It ends up finishing very badly for those males whether they are killed by the young bucks or whether they go out into the wild And they're all on. That they're all alone and they die emaciated and and so on.
What do you think when the new incoming males come into the pride is the first act that they do?
[01:00:09] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
What do I think the first act when the new incoming come into the pride? Linking it back To the father, to the stepfather things.
[01:00:17] Gad Saad:
Is to abuse them. Is that they systematically kill all the cubs. Why? Because in the in the lion pride, males do invest in their cubs, unlike other feline species where the males only do a copulation, they just have sex and then they disappear never to be heard. In the male pride, it's a social species where the males do invest in their pride and in their kids. Therefore, it doesn't make evolutionary sense for a male to evolve the ability to just invest in kids that are not his. So, therefore, the first thing I'm going to do is I'm gonna kill off all the cubs. No.
They're they're not mine. The females, by the way, are not very happy about that. So they put up I mean, female lionesses are are no slouches. They they, actually, they do a lot more work than the males. They will put up a fight. Eventually, they lose that fight. The first thing that they do after those new males have killed all of their children, you know what it is? Well They suddenly go into estrus, meaning they become sexually receptive. To the to the one who's killed all the To the ones who's killed. So I always joke with my students when I'm teaching them about all of these dynamics. I say, you know, in the human context, we bring flowers and chocolates and we play Barry White music. In the lion context, I get you in the mood by killing your children. Okay? Now why am I telling this whole story? Because there are many, many examples, including in the human case, where if you have heavy investment by both parents, they're not very keen on investing in children who are not theirs. Okay? Yep. So that was the first moment. Wow. This is so powerful as an explanation. The second one, this one might be a bit easier to for you to predict.
Who do you think across the world, you could go to an Amazonian tribe in the Amazonian jungle, who do you think is the singular most dangerous person in a woman's life? Is it?
[01:02:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Who do I think is the most sing is the most dangerous person in a woman's life? Yeah. So it could be in a tribe in Africa. Yeah. It could be the Amazon. It could be Who's the biggest danger to her?
[01:02:36] Gad Saad:
Yeah. Do you can you guess? Is is it a serial killer hiding in the bushes trying to rape you? Is it who is it? Once I say it, you're gonna get it. Go on. It's her long term partner.
[01:02:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
It's her husband. And that's the same for everyone. So so so the biggest threat to any woman is her husband. Yeah. And now okay. So that once we've established that Yep. What is the main reason
[01:03:00] Gad Saad:
that men will typically go into a homicidal rage
[01:03:06] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
to the boys and the women? Jealousy. Jealousy.
[01:03:09] Gad Saad:
So either because of realized infidelity or suspected infidelity, that will drive men insane. Right? Yep. Now why would you have evolved that trade? Because in the human context, we are a biparental species, meaning both men and women do invest heavily in their children. Therefore, men are not going to be your ancestors and mine are not those who said, oh, yes, sweetie. Go ahead and have sex with 10, 20 guys, and I'll be happy to raise those children on behalf of Tony, the sexy gardener. Therefore, we've evolved the emotional, the cognitive, and the behavioral system to not react well to philandering, to betray women. Now, by the way, people mistakenly think that when you offer a scientific explanation for domestic violence, you're justifying it, you're condoning it, but only imbeciles think like that because I usually retort when somebody says that.
Oh, right, so when an oncologist who studies cancer gives you the explanation for cancer, he's for cancer. He's pro cancer. He's justified. And this is all factual and backed up anyway because if you're looking at the most It's those are It's most attacked from the hospital. Culture Okay. Through time period. That's the beauty of evolutionary. So when I saw the the explanatory power of evolutionary psychology, I said that's what I'm going to do with my career. And so much of my academic career has been spent applying those evolutionary principles to study human behavior in general. It could be mate chores, it could be gift giving, it could be whatever. And so my my scientific research is all over the place, but what unites it is always a commitment to applying evolutionary theory to understand why you do the things that you Why people make their decisions. Yeah.
[01:05:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And then so and you've and then you've you've how many years studying you? How many years studying you? So the total,
[01:05:08] Gad Saad:
at university is 10. You've done 10 years? 10 years. Yeah. Wow. So I I got in at around 18, 19, and I finished at actually, tomorrow, June 21, 1994, I switched from mister to doctor, and I defended my doctoral dissertation June 21, 1994.
[01:05:33] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And then went on to straight away teaching? Straight away, I got a professorship which is quite How old are you then? So you're 29. 29. I'm 29. So you've studied till you're 29. What's that what's that like studying 2/29? Because you're a student till you're 29. I was a student till I was 39. So the only
[01:05:49] Gad Saad:
job I had, like, a substantive job was as a research assistant. So throughout my education, I would get these research assistantship. The pay? That pay. And so, for example, when I went to Cornell, I was fortunate enough, you know, because of my academic record to my tuition was paid.
[01:06:08] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
My Disrupted.
[01:06:09] Gad Saad:
Yeah. I would I got a doctoral fellowship. Okay. And so so I I got the full support. I didn't have to be because as you probably know, the cost, the tuition to go to these elite, certainly private universities, prestigious universities in the US, will bankrupt you. And so I was lucky enough And your sponsorship because of your intelligence? Yeah. Because of grades. Yeah. So yeah. So I spent 10 years. And then so when I started at 29 as a professor, so I didn't have all the white hair, I looked and I looked very, very young. So when I would walk into class so the undergrad You're a senior student. Exactly. So I've here's what I've done many of course, we can't do it today.
So I would come to class, I would, sit amongst the students, and I would say, what what so this is what what is this? What is this? This is consumer psychology? Yeah. No. I didn't hear anything. So I would talk Yeah. Then I would get up Stand in front of the car. And I would just smile at the person and they're like, oh, what an asshole. But now of course, that window is gone because I can't pull off being a student anymore. Yeah. And where and was you single up to 29? I was single. Actually, one of the reasons why I came back to Montreal is at the time I was single, I had gotten so I've gotten a few other possible offers, but the the most concrete competing offer to Montreal What? Was a professorship in, in a city in New York State that did not seem very appealing to me as a single guy. So it became a lot easier to see Why not?
It had all it was in I mean, I guess I it doesn't matter if I change it now. It's 30 years later. It's it was at in Rochester, New York. Okay. Rochester is kind of a gritty blue collar town. So it's got all the problems of a city, but none of its cosmopolitan benefits. None of our new cities. It's not London. London might have problems, but it's London. Montreal might have problems, but it's Montreal. It's so it's a gritty kind of nasty town. I remember when I asked, my hosts, the the university that invited me, to speak there, well, what what can a young professor do here that's fun? And they said, oh, well, we've got the Eastman School of Music, which is some, you know, classical music. I said, well That doesn't sound too fun. That's not gonna take us very far in life. So I'm like, okay, I'm out of here, let me go back to my shop. But, I mean, in a sense, it was a difficult decision because the the starting salary that I was being offered in Montreal was almost half as much as what I would have made there. But I was willing to take that hit, at least to be back in my hometown. My family was here, and it's a lot more cosmopolitan here and so I came back to Montreal.
[01:09:14] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And, you come back at what, 30?
[01:09:17] Gad Saad:
29. 29? Then that fall I turned 30. And straight work straight into being a professor. Straight being a professor. So for for the viewers who don't know, being a professor is, yep, people might think they know what it is, but it's it really I mean, there's three elements to being a professor. There is, of course, the teaching, but the teaching is actually a small part, a very, very small part of what it is to be a professor. The main part is the research. You have to publish a lot. You have to Oh, so you're not just teaching people, you have to continually publish academic works? You have to continuously publish academic works so much so that after a few years They'll publish their studies. Publish their studies. Exactly. Or in in some fields, you can also publish, books.
In other fields, it has to be just papers and peer reviewed journals. Okay. And so that at the end of a certain number of years, you present a dossier to the tenure committee, and that dossier will be made up of how has your teaching been, were you a well received teacher, how was your service, which committees did you serve on, and so on. But by far, the most important part is what's your research profile. Which papers have you published? How often were they cited? Which books have you written? Which conferences have you presented at? So you put together this massive dossier of, you know, hundreds of pages long of all of your supporting documents. It goes in front of a committee, and and then it goes through different layers of the university, and then they decide either they grant you tenure or they deny you tenure. If they grant you tenure, you usually get a promotion in your rank of a professor, and you're now
[01:11:07] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
secure that you could never be fired. In other words, the Okay. So you have to do a certain amount of work to be recognized, then you get that guarantee. So people are working hard and hard and hard to get the guarantee that they can let them head down. They're Okay. They're going at it. They're trying. It's and hence, that's why you have the term publish or perish.
[01:11:24] Gad Saad:
You better publish a lot or else you're gonna be kicked out. If you're kicked out, if you don't if you're denied tenure, then you you have 1 year left that you serve and then you're you're out. So then Okay. You have to either apply to another university or some people decide to leave academia. Of course, the likelihood of being granted tenure varies as a function of the prestige of the university. Right? So in some universities, you better be Isaac Newton in order to be granted tenure. And other universities that are less prestigious, you might publish 2 or 3 papers and that might be enough to get you through the threshold that they expect of tenure. So I I got tenure so I became a professor in 1994.
I I went up for tenure in 1999. I got tenure, and that moved me from so the first, the first rank of a professor is called assistant professor. This doesn't mean you're an assistant to a professor. It's just the title of professor. Okay. The next rank is called associate professor, and then the final rank is called full professor. So I got full professor now also many years ago. And then even higher than that is what's called the CHIL, full professor. This is usually where you get a endowment that allows you to do research. So for let's suppose you're a very wealthy guy and you decide you wanna fund an endowment at University of London. It's going to be called the Tommy Robinson chair in Consumer Psychology. So you give $3,000,000 and then the that endowment generates some money. And then if I get appointed to the Tommy Robinson chair in in consumer psychology, I hold that chair so I get the the money that that that flows out of that endowment to do my research and supplement. So that's the highest level. It's a chair professor. So, for example, Isaac Newton, I think, held the Lucasian Chair of Mathematics at Cambridge. Okay. And so I I got all those I did all that. You got to a chair? I got to a chair. I held a chair for 10 years from 2,008 to 2018.
Then when it came to renewing that chair and now I had really become very outspoken, suddenly that chair was never renewed again.
[01:13:55] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Okay. Let's get on to how you've come outspoken. We did you was you political in those early years at university?
[01:14:04] Gad Saad:
So, I I mean, I never refrained from speaking out, but my original forays into the public sphere at first was very much tied directly to my scientific work. But already there, I was already starting to see the parasitic ideas flourishing. How? Because it may or may not surprise you to to know that for most social scientists, applying biology is basically you're a Nazi, because for most social scientists, what makes us human is that we transcend our biology, right? Biology matters for the mosquito. Biology matters for your dog. Biology matters for the zebra, but how dare you say, Professor Saad, that biology matters for consumers? We're cultural animals, professor. We transcend our biology. Bullshit. Right? You don't you don't escape your biology.
So at first I started seeing that there was a lot of blowback within academia to my work in evolutionary psychology, because the social scientists simply were not willing to accept, and even till today many of them don't, are not willing to accept, that the same mechanisms that explain how the salamander mates or how the lion mates or how the crow mates is exactly the same principle that drives mate choice in the human context. I mean, evolution doesn't operate on every single species except one called humans. So that's when I first started seeing, we've got a lot of parasitic bullshit going on in academia. So that was my first sort of, this is pissing me off. I mean, these are these are companies that should be smart, and they're buffoons.
So that was my first sort of, let me start fighting all this nonsense, but then I quickly realized that those parasitic ideas were in every corner absolute truths. Everything is subjective. Everything is relative. Right? And that's taught in every humanities department and in many of the social science field. But what do you mean there are no objective truths? Then how can you do science? Right? Now science recognizes that a truth is provisional. What we thought was true 300 years ago, in light of new incoming evidence, we revise it. Okay. So science is humble. It recognizes that you don't have it. Only religion has revealed truths. It's the truth and you could never deviate.
In in science, we recognize that what we thought was true. We thought that the sun revolves around the Earth. Okay. And then we suddenly exit. But the church wasn't happy when Galileo was saying it. Right? He didn't have tenure, and they said, you know, just because you're Galileo, we're not gonna burn you at the stake, but you're under house arrest. Stop saying this bullshit. And then people said, no. No. It's true. It's the Earth of Grazer on the sun. But we do recognize that there are real truths to be discovered, whereas postmodernism says, there's no such thing. There's not a single absolute truth. Everything is relevant. So then, in my entire 30 year career, it led me to then writing the parasitic mind because then I said, my goodness, if people only knew some of the nonsense that I see every day within academia
[01:17:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Why do why do you think there is that nonsense within academia? Why do you think you think it do you think it's to do with people's
[01:17:33] Gad Saad:
own political beliefs as well? Yeah. That's That's a pretty interesting question. Yeah. That that's a wonderful question. And I I do address it in the parasitic mind. So I argue that what unites all of those parasitic ideas is originally a noble goal, which then metastasizes into killing the truth in the pursuit of that noble goal. Right? So take, for example, feminism. Okay? Equity feminism makes sense. Equity feminism says, hey. There should be no reason why men should make more money than women as an institutional, you know, fiat. Right? Men and women should be equal under the law. Well, by that definition of feminism, you and I would call ourselves feminists. Yeah. Of course, I believe that men and women should be treated equal under the law. Then radical feminists came along and said, well, it's not enough for us to argue that men and women should be equal under the law. We should argue that men and women are indistinguishable from each other because then that would allow us to eradicate the sexist status quo. We should argue that anything that men desire to do should be no different than what women desires are.
Ladies, burn your bras. If men want to have unattached, unemotional sex and they seek it, there's no reason why you shouldn't have that exact same desire. Now women have also evolved the desire to have variety seeking in their sexual pursuits, But we should again, a 33 they all pigeon knows that the pension for sexual variety seeking is not the same for men and women. As a matter of fact, studies have been done in 60 plus societies that are very different from each other and nothing could be clearer than the fact that there are certain incontestable differences between men and women when it comes to mating behavior. What do you mean? So for well, so for example, seeking variety in mates. So if you ask men, what is the average number of sexual partners in an ideal world you'd love to have? And you ask women the same question, there is no culture where women give same amount as men.
Women always want less. Exactly. Now that doesn't mean that women don't desire sexual variety. It's not it's not it's not the prudish Victorian idea that women are these sweet little chaste flowers and only men are the Neanderthals. There are actually very good evolutionary explanations for why women are actually quite promiscuous in their sexual interests. But we certainly know that men and women are not indistinguishable from each other. Social constructivism, which is the idea that all differences are due to social construction, argues that, no, any difference between men and women must have been because of sexist parental upbringing. It must be because of socialization and advertising. It must be because of the Hollywood images that you see in movies.
None of it is due to innate differences. Now the average person that you grew up with in Luton, who is smarter than most professors, would say, what kind of bullshit is this? But academics want to create a utopian world. I call it unicornia. So in the service of unicornia, if we have to murder and rape truth, so be it. So that explains the reason why all of those idiotic ideas flourish because they come with this kind of utopian view of where They're trying to get. They're trying to get.
[01:21:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
They're making a suit together. Exactly. That's exactly right. Because even when we got into COVID, I think when the sage when the sage advisers in the in Britain, when you looked was a communist member of the Communist Party. So asking if they're actually basing on science or basing on their own politics.
[01:21:18] Gad Saad:
And and it it is based on ideology of politics. Right? But by the way, speaking of communism, E. O. Wilson, who is a he just recently passed away. He was a Harvard biologist, who was specifically an expert on social ants. The reason why I'm telling that story, because I'm gonna link it to communism in a second, social ants have a unique, social structure. Social ads as in As in literally ads. Right? Yeah. Go on. Now there's social ads in that they they build communities. Right? That community is usually made up of a single reproductive queen and then an indistinguishable mass of worker and warrior ants that are all indistinguishable parts. There is a singular queen and all the rest of you are one mush. Right?
Why am I saying this? Because when EO Wilson was asked, Professor Wilson, what do you think about socialism slash communism? He said, wonderful idea, wrong species. Beautiful, pithy, statement. Why? What he's basically saying is when you are trying to impose a political or economic system on humans, it has to be consistent with human nature. Humans are not social ads. Social ads are communists because we're all All equal. Equal. We wanna be better. Right. Some of us are taller. Some of us are shorter. Some of us are leaner messy. Some of us are not. Some of us are intelligent. Some of us are not. Some of us are ambitious. Some of us are not. So now diversity, inclusion, equity comes along, one of the biggest cancers to the human spirit, and says, hey. Anytime there is a difference in in outcomes, it can't be because humans are heterogeneous beings. Probably because of race. It's because of race, because of transphobia, because of Islamophobia, because of indigenous, because of motion, and so on. Therefore, we will institute mechanisms to create equality because remember, we're not human beings. We're worker ads. So you're exactly right that many of these ideas evolve and flourish out of academia
[01:23:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
because of the ideological rapture of the professors. Because not not I see a statistic in the UK, 90% 90% of the professors at universities are are on the left. Oh, absolutely. So So is that march through the institutions? Would you say that the people have got into those positions of academia
[01:23:53] Gad Saad:
in order to have an influence? Oh, I think you're being you're being charitable in saying it's 90%. Okay. So I I actually cite, several studies in the parasitic mind where the studies specifically look at the political orientation of professors. And and in some fields, it you couldn't make up data like this. So it'll be Cool. So across all disciplines, it might be about 10 to 1. Okay. I understand. But that actually understates the problem because in fields like engineering or the business school, which are these are disciplines that are wedded to reality. Right? You can't build a bridge using postmodernist physics because the bridge will collapse.
You can't build a model of the economy using post modernist economics because the economy will grow. Right? So because some disciplines are more wedded to reality, they're less parasitized, and therefore, there is a bit of a more equitable political orientation across the professors. But I say equitable because even in those fields, it'll be a lot more to the left than to the right. But now as you go down the disciplines and you get to the more activist disciplines, you're talking about a 138 to 0,
[01:25:20] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
a 120 to 1. As in a 138 left wing professors to 0 Exactly. On the right. So in other words And they're in they're in the their professorships where they're teaching the next generation. Exactly. And they're teaching the next generations
[01:25:32] Gad Saad:
in domains where it would make pedagogic sense that you hear both sides of the story. Right? So they should be getting the left and the right, but they're just getting left. Exactly. Now in some disciplines, if you're if you're teaching evolutionary psychology, there is no left or right. I'm going to teach you the evolutionary principles that led to why men exhibit sexual territoriality. There is no left or right. But in other disciplines You have to have left on it. Fiscal policy, monetary, immigration policy. Is the death penalty moral or not? Well, there are compelling arguments on both sides of the equation. And if I am someone who is teaching the next generations of politicians, maybe I wanna hear both sides of the equation so I can really start forming an opinion as to whether the death penalty is moral or not, whether there should be open borders or not. But there isn't such a thing. So therefore, what do you get? You get almost a 100% ideological rapture from the professors who then walk into class, they exhibit 0, epistemic humility. Right? This is an opportunity.
So that means being humble about what you know and what you don't know, being being They just push it. They just, oh, I've got an opportunity to brainwash these next generation of of idiots. Let me use the pulpit to do that and therefore, let me teach them that, socialism is great. Let me teach them that, whiteness is evil, that patriarchy, men are toxic, and so on. So then what do you expect the future generation of politicians to be? They are called Justin Trudeau. Right? I don't think Justin Trudeau was born, Maybe I'm being charitable, but was born dispositionally evil. But he is an exact product Of the education. Of education. So he literally is a walking manifestation of every parasitic idea that I discussed in The Parasitic Mind. He just apes it. He's a zombie. He's the wood cricket who's been zapped by. So in in your 30 years of education
[01:27:31] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
in in universities, would you say it's education or indoctrination? And you what you've witnessed as a professor and your fellow colleagues, are they educating
[01:27:42] Gad Saad:
or are they indoctrinating? So because I'm housed in the business school, because I teach things like consumer psychology and evolution in psychology and psychology decision making, I don't see it with my students. And by the way, I'm very disciplined as a professor in that I never bring in my outside public intellectual activities into the classroom. In other words, I don't that I don't go on a tirade against the policies of Justin Trudeau, in your college evolution psychology. Therefore, you can't come after me saying that I am indoctrinating you because I recognize that you signed up to learn about evolutionary psychology with me, not to and that's what I mean by being humble. Yeah. I have this privilege to be able to be training students how to think, not what to think. So I'll teach you about the scientific method. I'll teach you about how to conduct statistical analysis to understand data, to make better consumer decisions and so on. I I won't indoctrinate you. Now do other people do it? Not so much at the business school.
[01:28:45] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Again, because teaching finance is teaching finance. It's very different to you. There's no there's no ideological push on that. Exactly. But The other people who have gone to the positions of teaching that. Then They can. All bets are off. And they are. And they are. Absolutely. Which we're seeing. The consequence of now. Exactly. And how has university changed if you've been in that if you've been in the university for 30 years? How has it changed from when you started to work where we're at now? Where are we at now? Oh, wow. What a great question.
[01:29:13] Gad Saad:
It is so bad that you couldn't find a more prototypical professor than me. It's in my DNA. What's that mean, proto? Like, an exemplar of somebody who's always was meant to be a professor. Okay. But earlier I said I've only wanted to be 2 things. Yeah. You knew from the child. I knew from as a child. And now I'm thinking I still have a long way to go. I'm not gonna worry if I wanted to stay in academia. And I'm feeling like it's time for me to leave because it's it's so, painful to be in academia. So let me give you concrete examples of that. Yeah. So usually, when you want to do research, you will apply for research grants. There are many different sources for how you can get that money, but the typical grant granter will be the government. So they are they are programs set up, pools of money. Like, if I wanna do studying, how do hormones affect economic decision making, I'll put together this big grant.
Over the next 5 years, I need $400,000. Here are the reasons why I need it, so on. And then, hopefully, I win that amount, and I now have $400,000 for the next 5 years to do this research. I can hire doctoral students. I can hire a postdoc. I can hire undergrads. We can run these studies and so on. Well, a few years ago, the Canadian government decided, and my university and all other universities, that it is you have to write a I call it a die statement. I don't do DEI. I don't do diversity, inclusion, equity. I do diverse diversity, inclusion, equity. So it's it's the acronym is DIE because that's that's where merit and experts die. Exactly.
So you have to you have to as part of you put To get that grant. To get that grant. You've got to fit in with this argument. How can I write a book called Parasitic Mind where I rail against the cancer of diversity, inclusion, equity, and then when no one is looking? So from this side of the mouth, I'll say that DEI is a cancer, but then from this side of my mouth when nobody's looking, I'll play along, then I will be a false person. Then I'll be inauthentic. So guess what I've done, Tommy? I stopped applying for grants. Guess what? Because you wouldn't because you wouldn't get the grants unless affront to human dignity. Please give me $400,000.
[01:31:46] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Explain what DEI is. So someone sitting here for diversity includes to just explain what that ideology is, what that's being pushed across the West. So
[01:31:55] Gad Saad:
it goes back to what we talked about earlier, which is if there are differences in outcomes, those differences are inherently due to nefarious reasons for to bad things that happen. Racist. Right? So why aren't there as many indigenous people studying mathematics? Canada is systematically keeping down indigenous people from studying mathematics. Therefore, I, your benevolent government, must come in and make sure let me see the count. There needs to be at least 73 professors who are indigenous. Right? Oh, how come there aren't enough black? There must be that. Why aren't there enough transgender? How come there isn't a single transgender person of color who's a neuroscientist at Concordia? Oh, that must be a problem. So diversity, inclusion, and equity is the noble framework that tries to redress those wrongs. Which is where people are being promoted based on their racial sexual reasoning, but not on their not on their work. Exactly. Yeah. So if you remember earlier when I said when you apply for tenure, you have a dossier of 300 pages long. That doesn't say what my sexual orientation is. That doesn't say what my skin you is. That doesn't say, where I stand on LGBTQ.
It says, here is what I've done. Judge me on my merits. Well, now we no longer do that. Now the top universities of Canada and by the way, you would think that those are satirical pieces that God's side is coming up with to take the piss out of people. University of Waterloo, which is a university that is very well known for its engineering and computer science. It's kinda like the MIT of Canada or the Caltech of Canada. Well, they recently had a call for a Canada research chaired professor. So that's the highest possible chaired professorship because it's the Canadian government that is down that chair. So it's a very prestigious chair.
It was for a chaired professorship in artificial intelligence, one of the fields of computer science. And it said that the people who apply for it must be non binary, what's the other one? Transgender or what's the other one? 2 spirit. What's 2 spirit? 2 oh, 2 spirit means so non binary is I'm neither. Yeah. Okay. Two spirit is I've got elements of both male and female in me. So I'm not male. I'm not female. I'm a melange or both, right? So it's non binary, transgender. So imagine that the most elite engineering schools in Canada with the most prestigious professorship in Canada,
[01:34:52] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
the Endauer being the Canadian government The only person who's getting that seat is got a fit in that one of those brackets.
[01:34:57] Gad Saad:
It's it's astounding. Right? Now of I guarantee you that in 50 years, people will look back and say, how could this have ever come to be? What kind of ideological ritual is this? Or of course, they'll pretend that it never happened. Why is this dangerous? It's a complete attack on the most foundational values that have made the west the great society that it is. Right? It's individual dignity. It's individual merit. Why do we have a day called Martin Luther King Day? I mean, he didn't say something that was so astoundingly profound that my he said, remember the I Have A Dream? Yep. I I I don't have the exact quote of Fermi, but one day I I hope that my We based it on Not on not on her skin color, my daughter, but based on her. Right? That is now racist. That is literally anti dying. If Martin Luther King were to write his I have a dream speech as his die statement when applying for a grant, he can't get it.
He's a racist. So all this to say, you asked me what what do I think of academia? So I have to walk around in this hotbed of bullshit while always be now I am, to a fault, authentic and honest. Maybe that's why I became Gazza because I tell it like it is. But it's very hard to walk in that ecosystem and be the authentic guy that you are because you're constantly being coerced into scamming. What what do you mean giving not this thing happened at my university, but it happened at other universities where, know, there is reparative grading. Don't grade people based on what they got on their exam because you owe them reparations.
[01:36:38] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Right? By the way, that's not Hold on. So there's at a university, there's grading where a white person could have a test, a black person could have a test. What you're saying is that they they could get equal marks, but a black person get bare marks. And or, for example, you you'll have even at the entrance level. They have a less of an entrance level to get into university. They can not do not do well in exam. Lower level. Right? So they're lowering the level of acceptance just to match their rotor figures of how many blacks or how many minorities they would need. Do you know Amy Wax is? No. Amy Wax was trained as a neurologist, a brain physician. She decided
[01:37:13] Gad Saad:
I I don't I don't do medicine, went back, got a law degree, became a professor of law at University of Pennsylvania, one of the 8 IBD schools. She's got into all kinds of trouble. She she came on my show a few years ago because they were trying to cancel her, because she said things like, well, I'm a law professor. Right? I see the grades of the students, and consistently, the black students are doing worse. It wasn't a racist. It was a statement of fact. Well, that was marginalizing. That was racist. She needs to be fired. Right?
[01:37:50] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
In medical schools, we now have diversity, inclusion, equity. Right? For example Which means the quality of the person doing the job is getting less and less, which then becomes a pain. Not only that. So now we have
[01:38:02] Gad Saad:
don't grade medical students because, you know, it's very, very stressful to go to medical school. And if you're now going to create a competitive hierarchy It stresses them. It stresses them more. Because when I have a trauma surgeon who's going to operate on me, I wanna make sure that he's a flower child and that he wasn't too scared during his medical training. So what so what diversity, inclusion, equity does is it takes all of the laudable traits that we valued until 15 minutes ago in the west. Right? Honor, merit demolishes them. Excellent. And it demolishes them under the misguided unicorn of you that we need to create in social
[01:38:43] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
ads. How do you stop that? How do how do we as a society if we're looking at universities, and in fact, if you you've got children. Yeah? Yes, I do. If there's a parent here whose children are about to go to university, what advice would you give the kids? Because people I I always say now, people parents used to be worried about their kids going to university and getting addicted to drugs or drinking too much alcohol. Now I'd be worried about coming out of university, chopping off their penis or removing their boobs.
[01:39:08] Gad Saad:
Something big's gone on. Yes. What advice would you give for someone who spent 30 years in the university and seeing where we're at now? That's a great question. There are many ways. So one of the things that you and I talked about when we went for coffee yesterday, you you asked me, what's a honey badger? Yeah. And I explained to you that in chapter 8 of the parasitic mind, I have this kind of battle for cry where I implore people to activate their inner honey badger. And so let me explain to maybe your British viewers who may not know what a honey badger is. A honey badger has been ranked as the fiercest animal in the animal kingdom. It's the size of about a small dog.
[01:39:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
It's a badger, but the honey badger is a particular type of badger. Someone put it on the comment under your thing yesterday as well. Oh, that's true? Yeah. Yeah. Under your comment, someone said a bag like the honey badger. Oh, great.
[01:39:53] Gad Saad:
So it's the size of a small dog, but it is so ferocious, so fierce, it stands so tall despite the fact that it's the size of a small dog that it lives in a very dangerous ecosystem and in the urban age neighborhoods with hyenas and with, leopards and with lions, and yet lions will go to the other side of the street when they see the honey badger. Why? Because it is ferocious. So when I tell people activate your inner honey badger, I'm asking them to be ideologically committed in defending their principles. So to your question, if you are a parent and you know that at the at the school they're teaching that, of course, girls can have penises.
That's just a biological fact that girls can have penises. Well, then maybe you want to get engaged. Maybe instead of saying, well, let somebody let let Gad Sad serve as our, spokesperson. He's got big shoulders. He's a courageous guy. He's he's a cool guy. He'll handle it first. No. We all have a stake in the game. Some of us have bigger platforms. Some of us have fancier titles, but all of us can effect change within the small sphere of influence of our lives. If your professor says something that's insane, challenge them politely. Don't say, but if I challenge them, I might get a lower grade. You know, the guys who landed on Normandy, we we celebrated it, they were all 18 19 years old. They knew that most of them were going to be mowed down like little mosquitoes, and yet they all said, yeah. Yeah. Sign me up. So if they're able to sign up for that,
[01:41:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
surely you can muster the courage to say, hey, professor, really? Women can have 9 inch penises? Can you explain that to me using simple words? Right? But is it safe is it safer than you is it is it safer than the university for pupils to challenge that now? Do we have that system of freedom of speech within the universities for these discussions?
[01:41:43] Gad Saad:
I mean, it depends on the classroom. In some classes, the professors will be unethical and will say, you better not say that or else I'll grade you down. But I'd like to think that there still enough honourable people, whether it be in politics or in business or in universities, that if we can activate the courage of the silent majority, then we'll quickly realize that the crazy folks are actually in the minority. But the minority are the ones that have the loud voices. The minority are the ones that do the encampments. The minority are the ones that call death to Jews. Eventually, they'll become the minority, by the way, and then you would have lost the window of opportunity. But today, the numbers are such that if I I look at my emails, I receive a 1,000,000 emails. And let me summarize for you what every email is. You ready? Yep. And it's gonna show you how that's the problem.
Dear professor Saab, bunch of compliments, last sentence. But But if you decide to read my email in on your show Please keep my name out. Please keep my name out. Please remove my name. Send it away. I write back, dear so and so. Yep. Thank you for the lovely words. Don't you think that the last sentence of your email is exactly why we are here?
[01:43:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Yeah. How how do you because you're exactly that is my direct message. My direct message is exactly the same. And in the sense, so you walk the street as we walk the street yesterday, lots of people complimenting you. Yeah. Yeah? Just in one Everywhere. Yeah. In one little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So there was no animosity. No. There's thanking. People are thanking you. Yeah. Why are they thanking you?
[01:43:22] Gad Saad:
Because I'm exhibiting the courage that they're unwilling to exhibit. I mean, of course, there are things coming out of my mouth or that I'm writing that is unique to me. But I think probably the thing that impresses people the most is that you have the testicular fortitude, the courage to stand up and say what everybody behind you is thinking but is unwilling to say. Look, there's always some valid reason for why you shouldn't take risks. Right? And let let me let me contextualize it within academia. Okay? If you're a young professor who's not yet tenured, you will write to me and say I'm I'm a have to wait. I have to wait until I get tenure. When you get tenure, you then write to me and say, well, I'd like to apply for full professor. So I'm you already So I'm I'm gonna wait.
When you get full professor, you know, I'm thinking of going for a chair professor. Once I get that and I'm 73, that's when I'll let him. Do you like I might be in the short running for a prize. So I even though I'm chair professor. So there's always some castrated, cowardly reason why you shouldn't take the risk and why Gad Sainte should take all. And when I say Gad Sainte, I don't mean just me. I mean also Tommy Roberts. I mean all the people who have the courage to do it. Right? And so, no, I'm not sympathetic to your reason for why you shouldn't. And so people write to me for example, someone who's got a conscience will write to me and say, am I a coward for not writing what I truly think on my paper because I just want to get a good grade? And my answer is, dear so and so, yes, you are a cow.
[01:45:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
But do you okay. In that sense, because in that sense, do you see where there's been the fear element has been installed in everybody? Even if you just look at the truck. We're in Canada. Yeah. Look what happened to the truckers. Yeah? They weren't cowards. They stood up. What happened to them? Yes. Can we can you tell the story to people who weren't aware during COVID? I'd like your opinion on COVID as well. But do you understand? So even if I talk about myself here, I used a fake name. Yeah? And I wore a mask Yes. Because I was a coward. Yeah. Because I didn't wanna be the person sitting here. I didn't wanna be the person who If you're a coward No. I was. What I'm saying to people is I was you. Yes. So the people who wasn't speaking out, I was that person. Okay. The people who didn't wanna speak out, I was that person. I was scared to speak out. That's why I used a fake name. I used a fake name and wore a mask because I was scared.
And I had a legitimate reason to be scared. So all these people because I it's a struggle because because they are gonna lose their job. They are gonna and if you're if you're a man who's working hard in Canada, are you free to just say your opinion or do you have a high mortgage? Do you have 2 reliant kids on you? And are you gonna put that in jeopardy by speaking out? I got you. Yep. So I So let me backtrack. So I I don't wanna make it sound as though
[01:46:14] Gad Saad:
I'm unsuperfative No. For real concern. But how do we get them to talk? Right. Yeah. So then modulate your risk. Right? So here I'm going to go to a topic that I covered in my book after a person of mine, which was a book on happiness. So in in that, in that book, I have a chapter on what I call the inverted u. The inverted u basically means too little of something is not good, too much of something is not good, and the sweet spot is in the middle. And the one of the most famous philosophers to ever espouse that idea was none other than Aristotle. He talked about the golden mean, and so you're gonna see how I'm gonna dig into what we talked about in the second. So he said, look.
As a soldier, a warrior, if he is cowardly and therefore he hides behind the bushes, that's not good. If he is completely reckless in his bravery and gets killed in 4 seconds, then so you see why I'm going for this. So no one is saying Okay. That he a completely unmitigated, uncapulated risk taker. But even within whatever real concerns you have,
[01:47:24] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
you can still contribute to the battle. Yeah. Yeah. So Everyone has a role to play.
[01:47:28] Gad Saad:
Right. You you go to the pub with your buddies and they're starting to say bullshit, challenge them. Your boss is not there. Your professor is not there to give you a bad grade. But then there, by the way, you know what the answer will be? But then I'm afraid that they'll unfriend me. So that's what that's my point is that there is always a viable reason for why it shouldn't be you who speaks. Right? And that's called the diffusion of responsibility in psychology. Right? So oftentimes, when you see someone being accosted and attacked, the likelihood of someone intervening decreases the more people that are around. You would think it's the opposite. Right? The more people that they are around, the likelihood the greater likelihood that somebody will come. No. The more people that are around, the more we could each diffuse the responsibility.
I'm not gonna go into the dark alley to save her because there's another ten really courageous guys that will go. I think Tommy will go. He's a fighter. I I won't do it. And if there's 50 other Tommy looking guys, well, let them worry about it. So it's a very easy psychological trap to fall into for us to say, let someone I really have real concern. Look. Why don't I share the names of my children or where so I'm also doing what you're doing. Is is it that I'm being coward? No. How can I eat? But here's what I'm unwilling to do. When I go to sleep at night, okay, the only thing that allows me to fight against insomnia is to know that that day, I behaved in an authentic and non cowardly way. Otherwise You're happy with yourself? I'm happy with myself. So there is a calculus at the end of the day that says, was I got sad? Yes? Go to sleep.
[01:49:21] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
If I modulate what I am, then now maybe that's too exacting and too punishing of a quote of personal conduct. Maybe I should relax it. But guess what? You are Tommy Robinson because you probably have the same I've got this coming up now. I've got this code of conduct coming up right now. Yeah. Go. Yeah. Of course. But that that's a I've got a court case coming up for a film, my mate. There you go. And I do not want to bend on it because I won't be able to live for myself if I do. Oh, you know? Just because I just think, no. If I go to jail for 9 months or if I go to jail for 2 years, I won't be happy going to jail in that prison cell for the 9 months
[01:49:54] Gad Saad:
if I've been. Exactly. So so I don't the fact that you wore the mask and the fact that you changed your name, to me doesn't
[01:50:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
in any way suggest that you are cowardly. Then what yeah. It's just that you just in the real world, we have to mitigate your risk. For me, it's how do we get? Because this all changes if everyone speaks. You know the letters you receive, the emails you receive, when I was when I've been to prison, I receive 100 of them. Every day if I look at my messages now, there's 100 of them. So there's a massive feeling. I think we've just broke the back in in London on the June 1st. Yeah? Otherwise said, you see the people who are whispering about these problems. People who come up to you in the street and say I agree with you but I can't say it. It's not great that you're doing it. What will be the moment because people are whispering about it. I said, when that turns and that bubble bursts, I think people are gonna be screaming about it. Yeah? Yes. How do we get there? How do we get the person who's watching this now, who agrees with everything you say, who sees a society going down the dangerous path, who's worried about universities, who's worried about indoctrination? How do you get them
[01:50:50] Gad Saad:
to step out to to actually just start? You keep doing exactly what we're doing here. Right? I mean, you you could have not come to see me in Montreal. I could have not taken the hours that like, guess what? Nothing is more important than us sitting here. Exactly. However many people listen to this, if 1, 2, 10, 50, a1000, it's a battle of ideas. Right? Normandy was a battle with machine guns. This is a battle for And no one's asking you about war. Say that. No one's asking that. I always say, no, we're not asking you to go to war Right. Right. At the minute. Exactly. But in fact, we're trying to prevent that. Exactly. So sorry. To your point about how do we get the people to to to wake up. Yeah. The people I promise you will wake up. The problem is when. When and if it's too late. And if it's now even when it's too late, it might still be reversed by that great Cost. Cost. So we can resolve it yesterday and would have been peaceful, Today, a bit less peaceful. In a week, a bit less peaceful.
In 10 years, it's Beirut civil war again. Now when I used to say this for for now many decades, people would always say to me, stop being stop traumatizing, professor. Stop being so hyperbolic. Today, they write to me and say, oh, you're right. I'll tell you can I tell you a good story exactly the time when somebody who's come around? Yeah. I I mentioned this actually in in the parasitic mind where I talk about how Jews can be parasitized about the mortal dangers that faces them. So here's an example. This woman writes to me. This is around 2010. She, says, we're friends. We know each other. She said She Jewish? She's Jewish. Okay. And as a matter of fact, her grandparents were I don't know. I think they they perished in the Holocaust. Okay.
Or some of them. I don't know exactly how many. She writes to me an email and says, I am I've become very good friends with a student at McGill. We mentioned McGill earlier. She's a PhD student in Islamic studies, whatever. And she was telling me, god, that, oh, Islam loves the Jews. It's not true. It's a miss misrepresentation, all this bullshit. Well, you're you know your stuff about Islam. You're from the Middle East. You Arabic is your mother tongue. What's the verdict? Tell tell me what is it. K. So I thought, okay. That's great. She's reaching out to me to find out. So what I did, Tommy, is I shared with her, I think it's about a 22 20, 22 minute montage of clips from across the Islamic world of things that people are saying about the Jews. It's largely imams. Scholars. But it could be the Islamic scholars. It could be the politicians.
It could be, the kindergarten cartoons that are being shown across the Middle East. What they're showing in schools and Britain. Yeah. Okay. I mean stuff that is so bewildering and how genocidal it is that it would make Hitler and his friends go, oof, that seems like it's a bit too much due hatred for me. I mean, I'm Hitler, but this seems like it's way too much. Even I have limits. And look, I got Himmler next to me. I got Goebbels. Look at us. We're the Nazis. Okay? So I sent her that with no editorializing. No k. Watch this.
[01:54:07] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
What do you think she responds to me? Get ready. Well, she don't want to accept it. Like, most people haven't want to accept it. Because don't know why they don't accept because if she accepts it, what are you gonna do about it? Exactly. So she writes back to me and says,
[01:54:19] Gad Saad:
wow, you seem to be no different in your extremism than they
[01:54:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
are.
[01:54:26] Gad Saad:
So So But why showing you it? Exactly. So you asked me you you you engaged me. Yep. I just shared a clip in their words Yep. That makes me the extreme But this but this is how the whole of society is treated any of us talking about this Absolutely. For a decade. Absolutely. Yeah. Now here's the good news. She's come around. About After 2 months? After 7th. After watching 6 months of Caitlyn. Okay. She came back to me said, oh, I don't know if you remember.
[01:54:55] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Oh, I remember. It's in the book. Oh, you wrote about it. Okay. But I didn't mention it. The neighbor. Yeah. Of course. Okay.
[01:55:01] Gad Saad:
She goes, you know, I now realize that I was probably not fair to you and I now see what you mean. Oh, you see what you mean because they're coming in to see what you're saying. Your daughter for the gangrene. It's affecting you now. Exactly. So diabetes doesn't exist because I don't have diabetes. And nobody in my family has diabetes. So diabetes is not real. But once diabetes hits my family, then it becomes real. Right? So the problem is that regrettably, the architecture of the human mind is constructed it's it's constructed in such a way that it can it will find every possible means to ignore the problem until it literally has taken a chunk out of your ass. At that point, then I wake up and go, oh, my buttocks feel a bit lighter. Right? But until then, I don't see it. Right? So they're all seeing it now? They're all seeing it. I hope it's not too late, but the biography is destiny, Tommy.
[01:55:59] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And what is the demography for Canada? What's the demography for the west? Hor How how horrifying? Just so Because Yeah. How far how horrifying? So And what and what what can you do about the demography? So let me let me first mention just the fertility statement and the demographic statement.
[01:56:16] Gad Saad:
On average across the west, the replacement fertility rate is 2.17. In other words, in order for you to just maintain your population at 0 and no to to make up for the dead is you need to have 2.17
[01:56:30] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
children. We have 1.3. We
[01:56:32] Gad Saad:
we are we we're basically an asexuals. There's no sex. Okay. So we are so if nothing else changed, I'm not talking now about Islam. You're going down. Yeah. Okay. Now you have They used they used this as justification for immigration. Exactly. To keep the money bubble there as well. Exactly. So, the Islamists have have long said I mean, literally, they advertise it from the top of the mountain. We are and I and your whoever is listening to this memorize this. We are I'm speaking now as it as it As an Islamist. Yep.
We are going to conquer the west through three means. We're going to conquer the west through the womb of our women. Gaddafi Center. Thank you. We are going to conquer the west through Hizra. Hizra is the Arabic word for migration. Yep.
[01:57:28] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So some would you say some migration and the immigration we're seeing is to do with g is to do with their wanting to conquer areas. Not not just
[01:57:36] Gad Saad:
Absolutely. And I'll come back for that. Yep. And number 3, we're going to conquer the west by using your miserable freedoms against you.
[01:57:46] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And you will use your democracy to end your democracy. We'll use your democracy. Use your free speech too. When we are the victim
[01:57:52] Gad Saad:
when we are the minority, we wind victimhood all day. When we are the majority, we minority wise. Got it. Now to your earlier point about conquering. Mhmm. This I think you would know given your work, maybe some of your followers don't. Islam is binary in the way that it views the world. There are 2 camps in Islam. House of war, house of God. Dar al Haram and Dar al Islam. Haram in Arabic means war. Is the the the house, the the sun. Okay? Yeah. So people understand this isn't you putting it into 2 word worlds. No. This is Islam.
[01:58:33] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Islam separates the world in 2. House of war, house of God. Yeah? The the house of Islam
[01:58:39] Gad Saad:
is any land that is now ruled by Islam. So for example, currently currently, the OIC, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, is made up of 56 countries plus the Palestinian territories, so let's call it 57. Okay. That's the OIC, that's House of Islam. Okay. Everything else is under the House of War, and that needs to be brought under the unifying flag of Allah, the house of God. Okay. Now there's another point to be made here. Any territory that was once Islamic Spain. Right? What do what do Islamic jihadists say? We will reconquer because They have to. They have to. They have to. Once it has been ruled by Islam, by godly decree, that land no longer belongs to those filthy Christian Spaniards.
So so that has to go back to Islam. So now let's link it to the Middle East. Israel's got nothing it's got nothing to do with some Zionists from Hungary and Poland coming and taking over this beautiful land where all the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims live together. It is an existential doctrine issue. There cannot be a Jewish presence, a a a sovereign nation called Jewish land in the that's it is a cancer. And then because I've conquered it once. They've they've stayed. Yeah. They've stayed. Canonically, it's written here. I can go to the book. It cannot be. So it's not a fight between these little territories and where we draw. There's no Islam. There's no Judaism. It cannot be. Now we can tolerate you, potentially. There was a time where there were Jews living in Palestine, right, but we will at best we will tolerate you. But you having your own dignity, you being more powerful than us, that's an affront to every single thing that is taught in my holy book. It cannot be. It cannot stand.
[02:00:49] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And and on the Israel issue, since October 7th, have you, like this lady who's contacted you, that's caused an awakening? I've witnessed, I keep kept calling it a mass awakening of the public of people who hated me. The amount of messages I get saying, I hate you. I was told to hate you. Media told me to hate you. I hate you. Now I look at you and I listen to you and I think, well, you were right. Yeah. Are you do you see that? Are you hearing that? Are are people Yeah. So so to give people some encouragement Yeah. As well. Are you optimistic for the future or are you in a position where you think we're in real danger? Well, that's that's a great question. I have to be optimistic.
[02:01:26] Gad Saad:
Otherwise, it'll be impossible to get out of bed. Right? So so then what's the point of doing anything? Why why why why why we having this chat? It's all dead. Right? So I do believe that it can be turned around. But regrettably, I say this again not to violate your desire to have optimism, but I would I feel that the West is still unwilling to look in the mirror and implement the changes that will be required to turn this ship around. I about 2 or 3 weeks after October 7th, I put out a tweet that, to my surprise, went really viral. I I don't know how many What was it? 15, 20,000,000, where basically I was saying, I actually think that the way if we continue on this path, there's absolutely it's irrevocable. It's pancreatic cancer stage 4. It's death.
And the reason why I said that is because I said, look, every problem we we we always hear the cliche, the first step in solving a problem is to recognize that you have a problem so that you could then develop a strategy to solve the problem. Now imagine if you go to see your physician and he says you've got cancer, and then your answer is, well, there is no such thing as cancer, and if there is cancer, it's a Zionist, plot. And if there is real cancer and there is a cure, probably the Jews are withholding the cure. Right? Well, then you're gonna die of cancer. Well, what the west now I agree that there is an awakening. I don't know if the current awakening is enough to turn the ship around. In other words, it's going to take a truly cataclysmic change in order to turn around. So in the grand scheme, I'm optimistic and that there still is a solution.
I'm not confident that the west has the stomach to implement those solutions.
[02:03:11] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Have you been surprised? Have you personally even though everything you know, been surprised by the level of hate in the west in universities on the streets since October 7th? I have. And for me to say I have And when you're already aware of the problem. When I'm already aware when I have my own personal history with Jew hatred.
[02:03:29] Gad Saad:
As a matter of fact, what has amazed me is the the varied sources from which the Jew hatred is coming. So historically, okay, I can I can rest assured that Mohammed and Mustafa are going to send me the Jew hating stuff, But it's not just the Islamic guys that are sending to me? The academic progressive left is also sending it to me. Right? So Do you think that surprised a lot of Jews? It has and some of them are awakening because, by the way, a lot of the progressive academics are Jewish. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they were part of the parasitized thinking. And then the third group, so there's the the Islam folks, the academic left progressive folks, and then the the Jews won't replace those kind of Neo Nazi types. Now they're they've all banded in deciding that I am the architect of the genocide in Gaza, and so this kind of hate I get is simply just bewildering. Right? I mean, I think I mean, yes, I can use humor and satire, but I think I'm very measured. I distinguish between individual Muslims and Islam. I'm very professorial and yet I am, you know, I'm a rat. I'm a vermin. I'm poison. And this is what you're personally getting caught? All all the time. And you've said nothing that's Nothing. You just stated? I just state facts. I share literally facts which you could look at those facts and say, here's where you're wrong, here's where you're right. Right?
By the way, I just to give you a sense of the type of orgiastic Jew hatred that I get. So I this will resonate with you because you come from that world. So I shared a screenshot of 1 of the grooming gangs that was caught in Huddersfield.
[02:05:22] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Okay. Huddersfield. That's the one I went out for. Okay. So so yeah. So that's no one should be hearing this more than you. So use I shared it. All the images of their faces. All their faces. 28. And their names. And their names. And their names. And their name. Mohammed. Mohammed. Mohammed. So I've sent from a call, which is a national system. No. That's just named Mohammed,
[02:05:41] Gad Saad:
but more more than 90 more than 30% are from the noble 90% from followers of Islam. 90%. Of the Huttas Huttas field only. Right? 9% of all of them. Of all grooming gangs. All grooming gangs. I actually thought it would have been a bit higher, but okay. Let's go with 90%. Yeah. So I shared that. And in my usual sarcasm, I said, I'm not smart enough to be able to see a unifying theme across these 20 guys. Could somebody who's got big data analytic brain help help out this poor dumb professor to try to see what it is? Okay. Guess what the answer I got? What? Who who who's the cause of all the grooming gangs? The Jews. Why? Because they're bringing them in. Yes.
[02:06:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
The Jews are bringing them in. That's why he's Tommy Robinson. Because this because I I get this. K. I get this all the time. So I I get that most of my hatred now is because I'm a Zionist race trader. Me. Exactly. So the hatred, not even from the Muslims. It's not coming from the Muslims anymore towards me. Exactly. I'm the race trader. I'm the race trader who refuses to talk about the facilitator. Exactly. So I I created a new mathematical equation. It's beautiful. So when 3
[02:06:53] Gad Saad:
Mohammed's rape, gang rape your daughter, the real rapist is Mordecai. So the equation is Mohammed plus Mohammed plus Mohammed equals Mordecai. Beautiful social justice equation, new ma new form of mathematics. So when I can't get the father or the prototypical father of a raped girl to direct his ire to the people who raped his daughter, but that he really needs to target it to the real rapist who's the Jew.
[02:07:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
How can the west be safe? I don't I don't I don't think any of the fathers or any of the British public per se. I think that a very vocal minority are the ones who are I do. Who are saying this. But do you Growing minority. But do you think it's it's a big enough of a cognitive trap? Well, they've all come together now. They've all come together very vocally. Very vocally and even as we're talking about on x with Elon Musk. Joe, why I was deleted from Twitter in 2017. Why? My statement said 90% of criminal gang convictions are Muslim males and 30% are called Mohammed. Fact. That statement come from a report from a a Muslim think tank. Yeah. That was my reason for them removing me for hate speech. So facts in 2017, but I had become hate speech.
[02:08:13] Gad Saad:
Thankfully, I'm back. Thankfully, I was getting my account back. Well, I saw yesterday you're you're too modest to say it publicly, but I saw your analytics. It's insane. And I thought that my analytics were impressive and you've worked the plan. So that shows
[02:08:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
that there's a need for this conversation. That the public are desperate for this conversation, that the public that we we as a society have to have this conversation. Because for 5 as I said, since censorship, since my censorship's early, we had built I become a voice or we'd have become an, and I'd say a symbol. So it wasn't about it's not essentially when people chant the name Tom Robinson, it's not about an individual called Tom Robinson. It's about a movement of people who feel voiceless, you know, who feel voiceless, who are desperate for someone to have this conversation and say things that need to be said because they desperately seen their culture and their country disappear before their eyes and with little hope. But that essentially, any anyone who has this conversation was censored or silenced and
[02:09:09] Gad Saad:
attacked under hate speech. Attacked as hate figures. Yeah. Boy, it must have felt liberating once you were able to get back your voice. I went well, essentially,
[02:09:19] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
yeah, massively. I felt like I was down and someone just picks me up. I said, go on. There you go. Then I'll just have a look back for 6 months every day back and let's go. But when I say let's go, it's because, what do you see to some people? Because I I had this conversation years ago, 13 years ago, to my now ex wife to say to her, the consequence is so terrifying. I I can see where this goes. Yeah. And I knew it 15 years ago. And I knew it because I grew up in Luton. So I know where this path takes this country. Yeah. And that scares me. Not the frets. Yeah? I've got 3 children.
Okay? I know where this goes. I know the way this takes us. Yeah? And now, as a professor in university, with the scenes we've seen in universities towards the average Jewish person or Israeli person or support of Israel, how do you feel about yourself? Yeah. Because you have but you're you're a you're you're outspoken. Yeah. You've gained quite a reputation Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In this field of being outspoken. Does that worry you? Yes. So this In 2024, let's talk about Canada. 2024.
[02:10:31] Gad Saad:
Montreal, Canada. Yep. Look. My university has been colloquially called Gaza University for over 20 years. So it's not something that today was discovered post October 7th. The the dynamics of my university have been that the writing has been on the wall for quite a while. Now the average student can go about their business merrily without facing any trouble,
[02:10:58] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Like, imagine if Jewish students who are anonymous. Right? Nobody knows who they are. Because they don't come out and say, you know, they don't have anything. Which is a sad state of affairs. Exactly.
[02:11:07] Gad Saad:
They are afraid to go to my university. As a matter of fact, a couple of months ago, I was speaking to a senior administrator, on a Zoom call, and that person said to me, straight looking at my face via Zoom on Zoom, that there is no such thing as true hatred at our at our university, which took me I couldn't believe she she was saying that. Well, about a month later, the president of my university was summoned in front of the Canadian parliament as part of a testimony with 3 other presidents where they each had to admit, including the president of my university, that there was massive Jew hatred at our university. Campuses. So now this past semester, I was fortunate enough to be on sabbatical leave. Sabbatical leave simply means that after every few years, a professor can put in an application to be absolved of their teaching duties so that they can just do research, write their next book, and so on. So I've been, the last few months, away from campus, so I didn't have to face that campus.
But September is coming around, and I have to go back to teaching. As a matter of fact, yesterday, my wife and I were sitting and saying, well, what what are we gonna do? What what's what's the strategy here? The previous semester, which would have been in fall 2023 when October 7th has just happened, I was still teaching. My wife was so concerned about my safety that she was coming to the courses with me. She would walk behind me so that there was never someone behind me. Keep her going back. And I made You saw my wife. Yeah. She's not a 6 foot 5 MMA fighter that looks intimidating. Quite the opposite. Quite the opposite actually. Rather feminine and beautiful and not very intimidating.
Well, she would she would she would sit the last seat next to the door coming into the classroom To see who comes in? To see who comes in. Now is it does it make sense that a professor in the 21st century brings his lovely wife as their bodyguard? Just keep an eye on them safely. It's insane. And so I don't know what the solution is going to be for me. Frankly, I don't I don't mind saying it openly. We were looking at various escape strategies. It it gives me great pain to say that because I would have loved to be able to continue my career here. I don't feel as though it is the tenable option over the long run.
[02:13:29] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And if this if this isn't tackled, say this isn't tackled because no one's tackling it. We're seeing this in universities across the whole west. Yeah? If this isn't tackled, what does a university look like in 5 years' time? When we see the screams of Al Arabah, we see all this going on in the universities now. What is it gonna be like? Will there be any Jews in university? Not many. No. Exactly. Will Jewish parents be sending their kids to university? What? Will Jewish parents still be staying in Montreal? Will Jewish is this and then and because people aren't happy with Israel. Many people wanna talk about Israel. Is there a safe place for Jews to go as this as this grows and grows and grows, which is gonna But the problem is so you'll pick up and go somewhere else
[02:14:08] Gad Saad:
until the monster comes also there. Right? So for example, I was approached by a university in Florida that wanted to hire me, and Florida certainly seems today more meaningful to be safe. I mean, you could carry a gun in Florida. They're not as insane about their tolerance and all this stuff. So it'll give you a respite, but the endemic problem is still there. Is the west, whether it be Britain or Norway or Denmark or Canada or the US, is the west willing to stand up and say, look, all cultures are not equal. That doesn't make you a racist. Look, you and I are both human beings, but one of us is taller, one of us is more aggressive, one of us is kinder, one there are differences between us. Same applies at the cultural level. Cultures are not the same. They're not interchangeable parts. Some cultures are defined by a certain level of acceptable, aggression that in other cultures is viewed as negative. Right? In Japan, it's a conformist society. In the West, it's an individual society. So the idea that all cultures should be equal and should be treated as though they're equal is an insane idea. By the way, it comes from a parasitic idea called cultural relativism.
Who are you to judge whether other cultures cut off the clericism of their 5 year old bodies? That's racist. You have no right to say that. You there are no absolute moral truths. Bigot. Okay? Well, that can't be. We have to inoculate people against these kinds of parasites. Yes. The West has historically had a set of beautiful ideas, there is a lot to be proud of in the West, anybody is welcome to try to apply to be a member of the West as long as you don't violate a millimeter of our foundational values. The second that you violate 1 millimeter, your your ass is back to Yemen before you could say a long walk button.
Which is what needs to happen. That's what needs to happen. So I'm not, you know, I don't you know, people will write to me, oh, but you know, the my friend is Muslim. He's lovely. I don't need to be lectured about that. I have more Muslim friends than most people will ever meet by virtue of being from Lebanon. Right. I I grew up playing soccer. Nobody's questioned. There are very nice Jews. There are very nasty Jews. There are Jewish pedophiles. There are Jewish honorable people. That statement applies to every race and every grouping of people. We're talking about an ideology.
Does Islam permit for the greater flourishing of individual liberties or not? If the answer is yes, then we need to turn everything into Islam. If the answer is no, then maybe we need to mitigate the influence of Islam in the west. It's as simple as that.
[02:16:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And do you see that happen?
[02:16:54] Gad Saad:
Which part? If you want me to, lie to your face, yes, I see optimism. You know, there's going to be a new change. Frankly, I go I I What about the voting patterns in Europe recently?
[02:17:05] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
The recent voting patterns of Europe. What about?
[02:17:07] Gad Saad:
What about Le Pen? Yes. But are they what what are they going to simply stop mass immigration or are they gonna reverse some of the trends? They need to de Islamize.
[02:17:18] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Exactly.
[02:17:19] Gad Saad:
If they do the de Islamization, then I think there is hope. Now again, don't get me wrong because people will write to me and say, but you know there was a period when Islam was the cradle of select of science and so on. No one is questioning that any grouping of What was that? Or did they take over cultures that already had? Yeah. The advancements of that? That that is historically true as well. I'm trying to be charitable here. Okay. Okay? But the reality is is that Islam as an ideology has a certain set of tenets. Some of the tenets are totally harmless. They're spiritual tenets, and that's great. Other tenants are either congruent with western liberal values or they're not. Right? There there's no other option. Right? If they are incongruent, then it can't make sense that 20 minutes from here there could be an imam at the local mosque spewing stuff that would make your skin crawl, but it's allowed because it's religious freedom. We can't stop it. What do you mean you can't stop it? It? There is a thing called sedition. Right? Sedition is when you are spreading stuff that is treasonous to the society. Right? Now it doesn't somehow gets a get a pass because it's a religion.
So the minute that we lose our reflex to protect religion because it is gauche, it is inappropriate to criticize someone's religion. The minute that we recognize that nothing is off limits, then I think we could flip the script.
[02:18:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So my whole my whole activism, I saw Islam as the biggest threat. Yeah? Mhmm. Always. Then come about COVID. Then come about lockdowns. Okay. Then come about vaccinations. Yes. Then I started looking and seeing a bigger enemy or dangerous. What's your opinion, from Gadsad in Canada? We've because look, I looked at the the whole world watch what happened in Canada. Yes. Yeah. Where I think can I think the Canadian truckers probably changed the narrative for the world at that time? I was sitting at home cheering them on. I think most of the people were. It took everyone was waiting for someone to stand up, and that started here at that time. But what was your opinion with COVID when it happened and your government's response,
[02:19:23] Gad Saad:
to all? I'm gonna answer it by giving you an anecdote. Did you know that after most of the sort of world have opened up to COVID, we still had a night curfew in Quebec where you couldn't walk your dog after a certain Towing. Time. Like it goes away at certain time. Yeah. So let's let's try to see here if you understand this. So it's minus 20. You're living in a residential neighborhood. Now it's minus 20 meaning that it's not like there is a BLM riot. Or where by the way, if there's a 100,000 people with BLM, you can't spread the COVID. That's just the fact of the virus. If you're progressive, you can't spread it to each other. So if I walk outside my house in a residential area, it's minus 20, there's nobody else in sight, and I need to have my dog do their business.
There is an overlord that has said, past 8, you can't do that. Now, by the way, they quickly reversed that one. But that doesn't matter. The fact that the institute that that you put it in. So now I don't unlike other folks and maybe yourself included, I don't think that the COVID thing came from a diabolical cabal of Davos guys that says let's take. I think it's it's more fundamental than that. Human beings have historically been ruled by author authoritarian, Yeah. They take they they they taste the power and they want it. Exactly. Control, they need it. So if you look at the buffet of histories that have the buffet of societies that have existed throughout history, the western freedom is a small bleep on the radar of authoritarianism.
Our default mode of government It's control. It's control. And so all that happened in the west now is that there was a mechanism by which the natural reflex of the few feudal lords to take over, they said, We can finally return to the natural order of things where we sit on top of the castle Tell you what to do. And we tell you what to do. So I don't think it's a concerted cabal in Switzerland with, you know, Klaus, whatever. Schwab. Schwab. I think it's the natural inclination is if I am leader, I'm gonna f your life And now COVID, thank God, has given me that opportunity. Let's ride that train all the way to its culmination.
So so, yes, I was concerned. I was frustrated. I lost. By the way, when my when Parasitic Mind came out, it was in October 2020.
[02:22:03] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
It started.
[02:22:04] Gad Saad:
In the middle of COVID now, I was fortunate enough to be able to promote the book on Zoom, but I ended up losing huge opportunities to go on gigantic shows who wanted me To talk about the book. To talk about the book. Because Justin Trudeau had decided that I can't leave. So
[02:22:22] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
I'm with the truckers on this one. And with the truckers, can we explain the truckers,
[02:22:27] Gad Saad:
they literally had bank accounts seized? They had their bank accounts. Not only their bank accounts seized, if you had donated money
[02:22:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
to support the Oh, they took the money as well, didn't they, GoFundMe?
[02:22:39] Gad Saad:
They just took the money. Yeah. No. It's it's breathtaking. It's communism. It yeah. And and and of course, but just to show that he involved the Emergencies Act. Which is now been proven illegal. Right. Exactly.
[02:22:50] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
So it's it's it's mind boggling. Based on science, any of it as a scientist? Based on science, any of it? Almost none of it. As a matter of fact, I mean, Fauci, as you know, has come out and said 6 Just made it all up. Just made it just made it eye. But but you know what? We can't laugh. We laugh about it, but people had to miss their live loved ones while they died.
[02:23:09] Gad Saad:
People were locked up. People are still ill from the consequences of it. Well, and I look, I was fortunate enough that that even though I had to pivot in a very hard way to change all my courses to be on Zoom, I my income was not taken from me. Damn. What about the millions of people who lost their businesses? How are you how are you paying themselves? Yes. My children could have had a better education were they not masked and were they not on Zoom and so on. But in in comparison to all of the people who suffered during COVID, I came out pretty unscathed. I didn't lose my income. I was still able to be a professor. I was still teaching. Nothing really changed. If anything, I avoided traffic of having to go on campus. But think of the millions of people whose lives were entirely eradicated and no one has
[02:23:57] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
paid No one's face no one's face consequence for it. In fact, Trudeau has been voted back in since then. 3 times. Since then. Now what's going on with the public? It's been 3. So here What's kind of Can I tell you, this is a
[02:24:10] Gad Saad:
do you have a small thing? You give me like a a a prop, and okay. Let's take this one. Let's suppose that this is, the cork of a wine bottle. Yep. There is an Arabic expression that says getting drunk simply by smelling the cork of the wine bottle. Now what it means basically is that you are of such weak constituency that you don't actually need to drink the the wine to get drunk. You just take a whiff and you're already drunk. Now I apply that principle, and you'll see in a second one how. So look, I'm gonna smell now the cork of Justin Trudeau. Are you ready? Yes. Oh, he's tall. He's got beautiful hair. He says some cute and pathetic stuff.
He must be good. Now let me smell Donald Trump. You ready? He's disgusting. I hate him. He's a pig. He speaks in a brawling he speaks in a Queen's way, brawling way. Now Now why am I saying all this? Because people simply get drunk by the cork of the image of the politician. They don't do the hard work of saying I love Justin Trudeau because of these seven policies. As a matter of fact, I used to ask people because I was so baffled that you couldn't see just what a gigantic shmuck he was then and and the answer would be, well, frankly, it's because I love to smoke pot and illegalize pot.
Frankly, it's because I mean, he's gorgeous. By the way, I don't think he's gorgeous at all. As a matter of fact, do you know who Megyn Kelly is? Yeah. Megyn Kelly is a very high profile journalist. We've we've become good friends. I've been on her show a few times. She's been on Of course, for, like, the point of shave squandchers. She's gorgeous. She the reason why I'm mentioning her is because when she came on my show and we were talking about our respective disdain for, Justin Trudeau, she said something that made me even love her more. She said, I don't what woman wants that guy on top of her? What woman want that guy can't handle in the bedroom. I said, I love this one because she's a real woman.
She she sees what masculinity is. She gets it. She and she she assumes her masculinity and appreciates a truly masculine man. You know who are the women who love Justice Trudeau? They were my middle aged female professors, colleagues, who on my on my personal Facebook friend, face page, were writing things that if it had been a male colleague of mine writing this about female politician Yeah. Big class as a hashtag issue out. It's done. Yeah. But they were able to say, my god. He's dreaming. I'm having nighttime emissions thinking about him. He is amazing. What an orgasm. Really? That's why you picked him? But now you didn't pick him only once by the way, I should mention, in a sense, it's unfair to say that Canadians picked him. Because of our parliamentary system, You have to Policy has picked them. At no point that they more than, I think, 39% voter firms. So the great majority And how many what what percent of people actually vote as well? I so I don't know that number, but you're right. It's gonna be a minority. It's gonna be a minority. Minority of a minority. So that's one of the the faults of a parliamentary system is that even though you might have a great majority of people who don't like you, you can end up serving 3 mandates as prime minister.
[02:27:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Trump or Biden?
[02:27:42] Gad Saad:
Until I just saw a poll yesterday where apparently now, Biden is 2 points ahead. What? Yeah. Yeah. It just came out. Now Of course, it's CNN poll. No. No. No. Actually, it was like a non woke poll. No. So that really stopped me in my tracks because
[02:28:01] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
if after all you're seeing And Biden gets back in, we're finished. We deserve to be finished. I ask if it's legitimate.
[02:28:08] Gad Saad:
Of course. I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of scamming and cheating and so on. But by the way, speaking of the inability of people to alter their decisions, I spoke last week in Toronto at a Jewish event. The organization is called Pefzik, and I started off by reading out I had just seen this tweet, and so this wasn't going to be part of my my lecture. In 2020, the difference in American Jews in voting for Biden versus Trump was 38 points higher for Biden. No. In 2024 so just remember the number 38.
[02:28:51] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
What is it? So it could be higher or lower? It could be the same. Which one is it? It's gonna be lower. It's it's it's gonna be less people voting for Biden.
[02:28:58] Gad Saad:
Yes. By by the same as black community are all shifting towards Trump. It's the exact same number, 38 points. So let's let me let me So let me explain. Let me explain. So in 2020 Yep. 30% more Jews voted for Biden than Trump. Okay. Then 4 years happened Yep. Including October 7th. Yep. Any human being with a functioning brain takes in new information Yep. And then revises their position in light of incoming information. And they haven't. When it comes to Jews, it the needle hasn't moved by a single percent. What? Therefore, you deserve what you get.
Yeah. The people that's what people can sound with the people who voted for it. What's the so the Jewish vote hasn't changed? Not not 1%. Woah. The the only thing that's changed, I think it was like 30 68 to 30, and now it's 61 to 23. So so the the percentages that I've but that same 38 point difference. By the way, I was recently asked But the black community has changed? But I don't so I don't know I I don't know what makes the The Jewish community. Somehow I think somehow they're unable to extricate themselves from we are progressive. We are empathetic. We are tolerant, the Democrats, and of course they're not. But the Democrats are the party, they're the liberal, they're the progressive. By the way, I've had a lot of people in Canada tell me, I vote liberal because I'm a Liberal person. I say but The Liberal Party Young Liberal. Exactly. Are you aware that the Liberal Party is about as illiberal as you could get? No. No. No. But there's there's the word liberal in the title of the party. Yeah. I can't vote conservative.
I'm not a conservative person. But that speaks to
[02:30:48] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
getting drunk by the court. Get drunk by the court. Right? It's just a label and I get drunk by the label because thinking is too hard for me and therefore, I better just get drunk by smelling the cord. I'm liberal. I vote this one. Because we've seen lots of the progressive Jewish groups in the the hierarchy in the UK who would have condemned us, you know, and would always have their pictures taken for for diver for diversity, which are out of touch, I'd say, with the mainstream Jewish population. The mainstream Jewish population are awake now in the UK. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those same groups you start after October 7th, it's like, well, where are the where are the Muslims you have any pictures taken with? Yeah. Well, they're marching down the road calling for the genocide of the Jews. Right. So so have those folks come around to you? A 100%. Oh, good. Well, no. No. Not those no. Not the hierarchy because the hierarchy were the elitist group groups within the Jewish They don't wanna be associated. They don't wanna be associated, but they're still so out of touch. So if I if and and essentially my arrest on October to on November 26th when I went to the anti Semitism rally to report, I received an amazing reception from the Jewish community. Yeah. Everywhere I go from the Jewish community. Amount of support I've received since since since But it's the riffraff. It's not the elite. Yeah. What I'd say is that not yeah. The mainstream Yeah. Jews. Yeah. Not the elite, but the elite are the same as our elite. Not like whether they're Jewish elite or whether they're Boris Johnson elite. Yeah? Yeah. They're the elite and they don't care about us anyway. So Well, they're out of touch with the the average community.
[02:32:10] Gad Saad:
Exactly. Well, one thing one thing that I take from a lot of your questions that you you have this, undying optimism, which I think you need to have. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to to do your work. Right? Yeah. I have not well,
[02:32:26] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
maybe it's desperation after the optimism. Maybe I'm just wanting it. Maybe we keep wanting it. But, no, I have that in the sense of I think I think my fingers on the pulse and it has been for many years and I didn't have the optimism 6 months ago. Yeah. I have the optimism now that people who hated me don't hate me. People who didn't want to listen to this debate are now listening in massive numbers. I think on the last one we had 900,000 people watching live. Yeah? 900,000 watching live. That's a million people who are and and I look back through I think I went on Good Morning Britain with Piers Morgan. It was the most viewed show they've ever had. Yeah? The public need this debate. The public want these discussions. These public are desperate for someone to say what needs to be said. And all those people have been censored and thankfully now there's a movement or more there's more commentators now having these discussions than ever before. Right. Than ever before. The commentators who used to condemn me are now sitting saying exactly what we're saying. So you're getting invited to this platform. No. In the past, you would have never been invited. No. People who are associating me that wouldn't have, but certain people who would have condemned me and now sitting on TV and I'm watching them parrot what I was saying 10 years ago. Yeah? But now it's They're allowed to say it. Yeah. They're allowed to say it but we were far right hooligans for for saying the same. But I think there's a there have And I can gauge by the reception I receive walking down the street everywhere. Yeah? So I can see, well, the public are awake. The public are feeling this. Yeah. And again, I'm not optimistic that there's there's a solution without chaos.
There's gonna be chaos. Regrettably, I agree with you. I'd rather the chaos be our us trying to sort the problem out than October 7th situations across Europe Yeah. And across the West. How how long do you think we are away from the October 7th across Europe? Well, we we were 2 weeks away from it last week in the UK when 3 Muslims were arrested with machine guns. Right. We've stopped many many attacks. I think that you'll be able to rewind this when it happens. They're gonna hit a school. They're gonna hit a school. They're gonna hit a school. Probably a Jewish school. Yeah. So that's what I think. And and they found plans. Muslim terrorists will stop the plans in London of Jewish schools. Yeah. They'll hit a school. And I keep saying, what will be the moment? There'll be a defining moment in history to change the directions of our nation. In Northern Ireland, it was bloody Sunday. That changed it. Something will happen in Europe. Who knows what it's gonna be? If it wasn't Ariana Grande concert when they blew up 25 children, if that wasn't enough, if Lee Rigby be beheaded on the street wasn't enough, and after each of these incidents so Lee Rigby got beheaded on the street.
A soldier was beheaded. Yeah. The late and this is where the lying corrupt politicians come in. Yeah. A soldier is beheaded. The the the killer, Michael Adebelardo, handed 52 verses from the Quran to a woman in the street that he says forced him to do that attack. The next day, Nick Clegg stood who was a deputy prime minister, stood on TV and said, in the Quran it says, if you kill one man you kill all of humanity. Of course. That's what he said. They didn't carry on reading. Obviously, anyone who knows the verse says unless they cause mischief. What was the verse that Leerby's killer handed over that he says forced him to do it? It was that exact first. And that exact first was it from his from his opinion, Lee Rigby had been part of an invading British army into a Muslim land who had caused mischief.
So and and it says if you cause mischief, you must be executed, have your hands and feet carved. But our politicians, I think so many people now are waking up to the fact since COVID, especially, COVID has helped massively. The lies of the media, the lies of the politicians, the lies of all of them got the open border immigration which goes against the interests of the British public, the Canadian public, the the chaos and the level of violence and ferocity that they're bringing in and importing into our countries. So, yeah, I am optimistic, but I, I'm optimistic that many more people are having these conversations. I'm optimistic when I sit and see many more discussions being had like this because more free speech or more conversation on this issue is what's needed without the labeling of racist or Islamophobia or extremist or hate preacher. Did did any of those insults ever get to you or you just really go like this? No. They got to me. Yeah. No. They got to me in the sense of, they got to me in the sense, I wear the hat proudly of being against his Islamic ideology. Yeah? Because I'm if I walk down the street tomorrow and someone wants to kill me, I'll my head's up. When I when I spoke out against Black Lives Matter as an ideology, as a Marxist ideology, I remember walking down the street because it blew up in the UK for me. And I remember seeing some black people look at me. And I remember seeing them look at me differently, you know. And I thought, I'm not wearing that hat. I don't because I'm brought up in a town where most of my best mates are black. Yeah. I don't care about black and white. But I then had then I was wearing that hat as as being viewed by some. Right. But that's gone full 360 as well. So whereas I was hated for that little period of time, black community had gone on to realize it was a Marxist scam. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't to do with black lives. The last thing it was to do with black lives. But did the names I think it got to me in the sense of, with my kids.
Possibly saying you. Does it did it worry your children? Does it oh, it worries my children. Even I had my son message me this morning about jail again. So or their their worries. And then they them at school and the people classing their dad as a racist. Difficult. Yeah. Difficult for me to see if there's there was 30 kids in the class, my son my son's school. 29 were getting invited to a party. He didn't he never got invited. Ever. And I see that and I think he's getting judged. And how he how does as a child, how has he dealt with that? So but that's the reason that they bring these labels in to to make you toxic, to make people scared, to make people not wanna associate with you. I think, again, we've we've gone through that now. The public don't care in the UK about the media. No one buys the media. No one cares what they say. I I laugh sometimes. I mean, I think I've done our last demonstration. The Daily Mail run a real negative article about us. And I was on stage and said, like, if your articles had 68 shares, not just a 1000 people are watching. No one's reading your article anymore. Your monopoly of power is gone. Yeah. Your smear campaign is gone because there are so many citizen journalists now. Well, I mean, that's why when when when Elon Musk, you know, bought Twitter He could be the biggest this could be remembered as the biggest savior of freedom of speech in his life.
[02:38:36] Gad Saad:
Very shortly after he bought it, I did a clip on my on my channel, on my show, where I basically argued that of all of the great entrepreneurial initiative that he's taking, collectively, all of them together pale compared to what he did with us. Yeah. Yeah. For the future. Yeah.
[02:38:54] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
That's that's Yeah. Give us back what would has been taken that they want, and they're not there. Censorship isn't about stopping what I say or what you say. It's about stopping what they hear. Exactly. And Elon Musk gives us about that platform.
[02:39:07] Gad Saad:
Hail to Elon. A 100%. What's your opinion of Elon other than that? Oh, I I love him. I mean, we've we've, we've actually gotten to know each other very well. We've we've met. He's invited me down to Austin. He's been a big supporter of my work and Wow. A person like mine. So, yeah, it's it's wonderful to have him on on your side. And, you know, what was really nice about Elon, which people may not know, is, you know, we we sit down together and it's there's no pretense. You you would never he he doesn't he doesn't act haughty. He's not. It's very personable. It's not he's he's
[02:39:47] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
he's lovely in every possible way. And for me, when I look at someone like Elon Musk, same as Donald Trump, I think he didn't need to do this. He was loved. Yeah. So Elon Musk, he was loved. Yeah? No one there was no negativity about him, really. Yeah? Yeah. Now with Brit doing this, he's opened himself up to facing a backlash or facing an onslaught of hate. Yeah. Which he didn't need to and spent £44,000,000,000
[02:40:05] Gad Saad:
to to to do it, but didn't need to do it. Absolutely. And and, you know, It's gonna take people like that. All of these guys, I think, are truly honey badgers. Right? Because you could sense that look, it it affects all of us what we are reviled and What was it? Who is this comment fuck yourself to? I love that. Who is it to? The Disney. The Disney. It was about Disney. Yeah.
[02:40:27] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
If it's not clear, go fuck yourself. Fuck yourself. Yeah. To do with advertisement. Because that's how they rule everyone. That's how they manage to censor everything because they in the corporations
[02:40:36] Gad Saad:
from the top down, the ones controlling what we hear and see. But that's that's what I think that's what Mason Elon Musk. Right? Or or any historical figure. Right? What what makes somebody historic, right, is that they they're not a fence sitter. They don't equivocate. They don't play both sides, but but that's what politicians do. Right? Christopher Hitchens, who hails from Who's brilliant. Right? I mean, this is a guy that you were I mean, it was such a thrill to listen to him. Even if in cases where you might have disagreed with someone's positions, Iraq war, yes, no, we don't we can discuss.
But boy, was he a honey badger. I mean, if you came to a debate with him, you you you better Douglas Douglas Murray? Douglas He's in the horn? By the way, he was here. He was just here much more. I heard. Yeah. We were supposed to to meet and we we didn't get a chance to meet, but, Douglas Murray is another one. All of these guys share the same sort of immunity from caring about what people think and they just forge forward and that's why they become the the figures that they become.
[02:41:39] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
You've named a lot. How many books have you wrote, Ed?
[02:41:42] Gad Saad:
5. 5. Can you tell us what the names of them and where people can get? Oh, thank you. So the first one was in 2007, The Evolutionary Basis of Consumption. This is a book explaining how you apply evolutionary psychology to consumer behavior. That was an academic book, so it's a bit more technical. My next book was an edited book called Evolutionary Psychology of the Business Sciences. Then then I started writing more for the masses, for the Yeah. Yeah. For the late people. So my next book in 2011 was called The Consuming Instinct, What Juicy Burgers, Ferrari Ferrari's Pornography and Gift Giving Reveal About Human Nature.
Then the next one was the parasitic mind, how infectious ideas are killing common sense. That came out 2020. Most important? That's by far because of the topic. Yes. Exactly. That's the one that that's been an international bestseller, but I think translated in 22 Wow. Languages now or something like around there. So, yeah, that's been a big one. The next one was the sad truth about happiness, 8 secrets for leading the good life, which came out last year. And then the next one is going to be suicidal empathy. How when empathy misfires, you'll be it results in the kinds of problems that we've been talking about. And where can people buy them? Amazon? So Ingram Hall, buy them on Amazon and, of course, through my my various publishers.
My last two books were through Red Canary, but all of the 5 books are on Amazon.
[02:43:10] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
And finally, Gav, I've enjoyed after a couple of your time here. I've enjoyed the conversation. What is the future for Gadsad?
[02:43:16] Gad Saad:
The future for Gadsad is We're very and be honest. Professionally? Just in life. It do is it good? Is it bad? Is it Well, God willing, it's very good. It's filled with, purpose and meaning. It is, seeing my children flourish and surpass their father. Any any good dad or mom should always have the humility to say, not that you just want your children to grow up to be good people. You want them to be even better people than you. So hopefully, I keep my fingers crossed for that to continue having a beautiful marriage with my wife and being healthy and meeting
[02:43:52] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
interesting guys like Tommy Robinson. And you know what? I wanna end on actually because, god, you have as I said it earlier, you've aged like wine. Remember we spoke 8 years ago. I dug the picture up. Yeah. You look very well. Okay? You look like I've had a massive improvement in your health and in the way in your visibility, the way you look. How is that? Because if people are watching this that are feeling
[02:44:11] Gad Saad:
unhealthy or in a position Yes. Low point in their life, what what have you done? One of the reasons why I wrote the happiness book is because whenever I would share some advice on life, people would take so much to it, including how I ended up losing. So How much do you weigh? So my my heaviest weight to my lightest weight, I'm now about 6, £7 more than my lightest Okay. But still very much thinner.
[02:44:35] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
I lost £86.
[02:44:36] Gad Saad:
What's £86 in stone? £86 in stone, so divided by 14. So maybe
[02:44:42] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
7 stones. Okay. That's a lot of weight. Yeah. So How?
[02:44:46] Gad Saad:
Yeah. So a few things. Number 1, 90% of your weight is through this guy. Oh, yeah. I know. And I can't control it, bro. Okay. I'd rather train twice. And about 10% is through exercise. So number 1, I used COVID to turn it into a positive. Is that when you started you? Yeah. I mean, I started maybe a month or 2 earlier, but it's really the bulk of it was through COVID. It's 15
[02:45:15] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
t. I've had that this morning.
[02:45:19] Gad Saad:
How was that then? My wife, who I call her my food,
[02:45:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
she will keep track of every single No. She give me 600 calories in the morning yesterday. I know. Yesterday. Oh, you were frying cream cakes for me.
[02:45:32] Gad Saad:
That's what's happening now. So so she she I would eat no more than 50 to 600. Measured weights? 15 to 20000 steps a day no matter what. Got it. Every day. Every day, it's been actually for before even I started losing weight, it's been about 4 or 5 years. I do 15, 20000 steps no matter what. It could be minus 20 outside. Now it could be I do a stationary bike. It could be a treadmill. It could be a long walk. It could be anything. But at the end of the day, I have to certainly have reached between 15,000, 20,000 steps.
[02:46:05] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Is that quite easier? Did it get better? To someone who's sitting at home who hasn't walked in months or years? Just start small steps. I know it sounds like cliche.
[02:46:14] Gad Saad:
Start 2,000 steps. Take a 10 minute walk. Just don't sit sedentary in your living room. And, you know,
[02:46:25] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
80 And you do that every day, though? That that's a Rooting about everything?
[02:46:29] Gad Saad:
Every single day, the totality of decisions you made results in only 1 of 3 outcomes to your weight. Yes? Your weight could either go up that day, it could stay the same, or it could go down. Yes? Now let's suppose that I just make sure that every single day, it's down. Now it could be 0.00 down. Right? But if every single day, for a 180 consecutive days, that statement holds true, I'll get on the scale and I'll go, oh my god. I can't believe it. I lost £42. What I mean by that is it's it's also a psychological mindset. If you get on the scale and you say, how am I ever gonna lose £50? It seems impossible.
It will be impossible. But if you say it's actually just a daily battle, I need today to be thinner than yesterday, even if it's by 2 millimeters, and do that over enough days, you end up looking as gorgeous and as well as I am. And how much better did you feel? From from that time, how much did how much confidence does it give you? How much better do you feel? Or how much Huge. Huge. Not so much from a vanity perspective to be honest with you. Because I think had it been vanity, I would have never let it get out of control in the first place. Yes. It's great to be able to look good, for people to comment about your looks and so on. But the most important thing for me, and it may apply to your viewers or not, it was the psychological weight, the following weight. I I have health and psychological weight the following way. I I have health anxiety, meaning that I don't like to go do my physical every year because I'm always worried. What if it gives me some devastating news. Right? So I'm always concerned about weight. And I was thinking, well, I've got young children.
I'm very overweight. You said example. My my blood pressure is starting to creep up. For someone who want who is anxious about their health, what's the best way to remove that anxiety? Be thin, bring back your blood pressure threat. And so once I got rid of that so that when I go see my physician and he does my blood pressure and now it's like that of a 12 year old, then that's the weight that I think I have most benefit from, more than the size of my waist.
[02:48:30] Tommy Robinson 🇬🇧:
Yeah. Gad, it's been, very enjoyable. And it's been absolutely an honor to meet you. It's so good to talk. I wish you some luck. Cheers. Thank you, Gad. Cheers. Oh, that was good. If you're watching that, we're still centered on most places. Like it, share it, and give Gad a follow at what's your Twitter? Atgadsah. Rochelle on there. Cheers. Cheers, man. Thanks, bro. Carry on watching for more interesting guests. I'll talk to anyone. I'll debate anyone. I'll hear anyone's story. If you want to help me along that way, it's not free. I need your support. If you can support my family, that gives me my peace of mind. It means I can continue to do the work I do. I appreciate every bit of support as do my children. It gives me the ability to fly them out here, to see me so I can stay in constant contact with them. I'm the platform and I'm censored, so I need you. I need you to share this content, and make sure you stay tuned for upcoming weekly guests, interesting guests, exciting guests. I'm Tom Robson, and this has been my podcast, Silenced.
Introduction to Islamic Choices and Social Hierarchy
Concerns About Modern Universities and Political Indoctrination
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest: Gad Saad
Gad Saad's Early Life in Lebanon and Civil War Experiences
The Lebanese Civil War: Personal Stories and Family Struggles
Life as a Jewish Family in Lebanon
Kidnapping and Torture of Gad Saad's Parents
Immigration to Canada and Early Experiences
Gad Saad's Academic Journey and Career
Political Indoctrination in Academia
Changes in Academia Over 30 Years
Advice for Parents and Students Facing Modern University Challenges
The Impact of October 7th on Jewish Awareness
Demographic Changes and Their Implications
COVID-19 Response and Government Overreach
Political Leadership and Public Perception
Public Awakening and Optimism for the Future
Gad Saad's Books and Future Plans
Closing Remarks and Call to Action
